Jumpdogs

[DarkCornerKennel]

I recently read that horse trainers say that "breeding" attributes about 35 percent toward the success of a horse. I assume this meant the other 65 percent is relative to diet, handling, training etc. With this in mind I think it would be interesting to hear from those who own or have owned that special, special, special jumpdog and share the early history of the dog and the way the dog was developed. Some points of interest are breeding, age of pup when you got him, how much was pup handled during the first 3 months of life, did pup receive any yard training before being introduced to rabbits, how was he introduced to rabbits, how was he started ( enclosure, with another dog, in the wild, on domestic or wild rabbits, with the pack, etc.), is the pups personality friendly, not so friendly or somewhat shy, describe his hunting agility (slow and steady, strong winding ability, darts back and forwards in heavy cover, etc.), does he have a cold nose, use of mouth, describe your running grounds and the quantity of rabbits, how often was the pup ran.
If 10 responders answers this and all of them did one thing the same, this would be very interesting. Come on guys, tell us about your special, special, special jumpdog.

[gus]

Genetics, genetics, genetics. All the other stuff can be discounted as fancy and wishful thinking. Some dogs develop into "jump dogs" later, giving egotistical handlers/owners a opportunity to brag but it is genetics coupled with opportunity.
I never heard of a trainer that could take a plow horse and train him for the Kentucky Derby. They sell those yearlings for high dollars because the horse people know it is genetics. Beaglers pay high stud fees because they know it is genetics. They teach them voice commands of come and down then take the young dogs to a starting pen. If it shows promise they get it ready for trials.

[blunder]

This is really fairly easy, and is well documented in some other breeds, especially Retrievers.
Point #1 with any dog;
Dogs will learn to fail far faster than they will learn to succeed.
Take a dog to the field and let it run day after day, and it will go to the field and run day after day,,,,,,,,,, without ever finding anything!!!!! Make sure that the same dog succeeds at finding something each and every time it is taken to the field, and chances are that it will find something every time it is taken to the field. rocket science
IMHO this is the single most important factor in developing good gundogs of any kind. Even if you have to stick a Stinky old dead rabbit in your pocket, make sure that the puppy finds a rabbit,,,,,,, every time.

As for time line what I do with the pups that are whelped here is that at 3 days of age we start "Early Neurological Stimulation" (do a search on ENS and you will find an article written by Dr Battaglia PhD that explains it) real simple, huge benifits
Then at 5 weeks we start "introductions" (guns, birds/rabbits, water, etc,etc) These introductions must be completed before about 12 weeks when "fear memory" develops, otherwise it is best to wait until the pup is older (6 months) and knows how to process fear. The idea is that if the puppy doesn't remember that it was afraid of something the first time it saw it, as an adult the dog will be far bolder. From 12 weeks until about 6-7 months (when the pup has it's permanent teeth is a good guide) all training should be kept FUN with little or no pressure. At 6-7 months the puppy will have developed the cognitive skills necessary for a formal training program to Begin (basics)

tom

[S.R.Patch]

It's ALL about the breeding first, having quality hunting hounds in the pedigree that excelled at jumping an successfully circling rabbits to the gun, then, providing the enviornment & opportunity for those inbred gifts to develope to their full potential as the pups grow.

The earlier you can put pups on the ground, the better. The earlier you can awaken their nose and "allow" them to learn it is for "finding", the better. After that, it's All about taking them to the field and standing back(or rather sitting in your favourite lawn chair) and allowing that talent to develope "without interference". The best, won't have to be encouraged. A true jumpdawg has it in it's nature to find rabbits, as in most thing, pups have their own rate of development and this also applies to hunting-up rabbits, but the best have the nature within them and take right to it, once they start. I say once they start, as one of my best never saw the "light" untill she was just short of a year old. A little Pop Fannie bitch that jumped many a rabbit, in fields that had just been hunted over by other hounds and if you were ready to go home, you better put a lead on her or you'd have another rabbit going before you walked a B-line to the truck. If there was a rabbit in the field, she would find it, as for cottontail, she was one of the best jumpdawgs.
To me, a jumpdawg is one that defines itself when the rabbit cycle is down and your only jumping 2 or 3 rabbits when hunting all day and this one is consistantly making the jumps day after day and other hounds are starting to following her around as they've learnt to stay with her, is to run rabbit. When the cycle is up or high, even a blind hog finds acorns. But, when the boys are leaving the field and tell you, "might as well turn around an go back home and make better use of your time as there's none out today, then you go on in hunting and bring home the supper, it tell me somebody has a jumpdawg...
Junpdawg= brains + desire + independence A very focused little hound.
The worst thing you can do to ruin a pup from becoming a jumpdawg is constantly walking or interfereing with the pup. Let the hounds tell you when it's time to move, otherwise, sit still!!!

[Cottontail Chaser]

I agree with SR Patch.. I learned from some old timers what mistakes I was making and wondering why my dogs wern't jumping rabbits like his dog did.. I was always walking in the bushes and briars while the dogs walked around me as they learned that I was supposed to jump the rabbit and then they would take chase after I called them on the rabbit . Well they told me like SR Patch said in his post let them go through the cover and when they move you move and now my dogs have jumped every rabbit unless I stepped on one by accident by letting them go in the bushes while I talk to em and encourage them, but I don't beat any brush anymore unless I hit the thickets from the outside with a stick but no more going in the briars as this is what the dogs are for and should be doing..They learned that rabbits are there and not on the paths and if they do stay on the paths then get rid of them and make this enjoyable for yourself again and the dogs when they work the briars and start getting a snootfull of rabbit scent and they boom out and start talkin to em, I believe they enjoy doing the jumping now that they figured it out.But start with a dog bred from hunt and jump parents and grandparents...I stopped looking at the titles and started looking at the dogs and if they had the titles then they were the true representation of what a FC ought to be not a title given to a dog that had all its rabbits jumped for them by the gallery or the handlers but now I start with Hunt/Jump as the first and most important trait in my breeding..Remember,,, before you can have a great hunt or chase you need to produce the rabbit/hare first and its the best feeling when your sliding on your hunting chaps and overhalls and you hear the dogs jump a rabbit before you even get the gun out, fellow beaglers thats what its all about and its even better if you have a kid with you and he nearly wets himself with excitement of hearing the dogs running and knowing he has a chance at Mr Bunny... Whew I can't wait for huntin season just thinkin about it...

[Buckeye Bob]

Good stuff,I grew up with always having one beagle in the kennel.I just took for granted that every beagle was a good jump dog.Here is what I took for granted.#1.Dad would but a pup from the same guy...good proven bloodline of hunting dogs#2.One of us 5 boys had the pup out every day running around the yard and fields,we would get rabbits out for them to chase the day we got them at 8 wks old.Time was unlimited#3 we were surrounded by rabbit cover and lived on a dirt road,we could do our chores while listening to a beagle run a rabbit.#4solo dog work,no help from anyone elseSo you had genetics,exposure and plenty of rabbits.When I started looking for what I grew up with I was stunned by the lack of "jumpdogs".I looked all over for the bloodline that Dad used to get and found it way back in the ped of some pups for sale.Bought a gyp and was a kid again for a year getting her into the brush almost every day and watched her turn into a true "jumpdog",I have not had that kind of time since then and had more than a few pups with plenty of hunt but not true jumpdogs.Leads me to believe genetics + constant exposure = jumpdog.

[DarkCornerKennel]

S.R. Patch's defined a jumpdog perfectly. I have been fortunate that I have owned three such hounds during the past 16 years. Two of these I purchased at 5 and 6 years of age. One I trained myself and she is now 10 years old. All three were females. The one that I trained never saw a starting pen and never saw a domestic rabbit. I've probably gone through 200 hounds since I started beagling and most were started in a pen on domestic rabbits but none were true jumpdogs. Does anyone know of one of these special dogs that was started in a pen and or on domestic rabbits? [/b]

[Wilkerson Boys]

I have a male around 2-12 yrs. old, a male around 1-1/2 yrs. old, and a female nearly 2 yrs. old. The two males are awesome jump dogs and the little female is not bad. (she does not have near the running time as the males) Now here's the story.

Sire: HOF GRRCH Cruise's Jim Dandy
Dam: Sleepy Hollow Shadow (out of Lizard Creek Corky & her half brother on sire's side)

They are full brothers & sister just different litters.
Hometown JD's Man-O-Mac
Wilkerson Boys Ebola
Daddy's Big Sis

PS - Shadow is down at the pen expecting again. (yep sire is JD)
Wayne

[tommyg]

I have a very special Jump hound,she learned it on her own,she was taken out and ran and she devolped into a fine jump dog. I don't think that can be trained into a hound,I belive it comes natural,I do think you can make a hound jump more Rabbits by solo time,but the realy good jump dogs I've seen are naturals. It seems like she knows where they are and she goes and jumps them. She belonged to a guy I know and I bought her at 3 years,I had hunted with her before I bought her. Some of the best Jump hounds I've ever seen had no papers and the owner didn't know the bloodlines.

[Cottontail Chaser]

I have only owned one myself that was a true jump-dog, you just don't know what your missing until you don't have it and it's definitely something thats missing in todays dogs...A friend of mine currently has 2 jump-dog deluxes, he had 4 until 2 have passed in the last few years. I sure have learned alot from this man as he breeds for himself and what he likes, I agree with some of the above posts that a dog is either a natural jump-dog or they aren't although alot of exposure always helps develope a dog into the best they can be but you need to have the genetics... On the question regarding has any jump-dogs ever been trained in an enclosure, the man I hunt with that has all these jump-dogs trained all of them in an enclosure and runs them year round, as the only time they run outside the enclosure is hunting season and thats 3 to 4 days a week. They were started on cottontails and his enclosure is 10 acres...The one thing in common of all his jump-dogs breeding,, all are from SHAKE breeding...

[DarkCornerKennel]

Most of us work and have a schedule that only allows us time to run during the same time of the day. Some folks work the first shift and some work the second. Does working a dog solely in the morning, with few exceptions, hinder the chances of making a jumpdog? Night tracks come into play here.

[Big River Beagles S]

A good jump dog is just that no matter what time of day you run them they always seem to know where to put there nose to move a rabbit out of cover. These dogs just seem to be able to wag there tail and away a rabbit will run. i own a dog that if you put here inb the middle of a 300 acre mowed feild she seems to always find a rabbit if you know what i am saying she just produces. She was started in a running pen and she has been an extreme jump dog from day one.

[Greg H]

SR Patch wrote Brains + Desire + Independance = Jumpdawg. I agree 100%. I would like to add that all good jump dogs have something in common. They don't lock into using one sense when hunting. For instance jumpdogs don't go into the cover just using their nose, they always have their ears kicked forward, smelling and watching all at the same time. I like to refer to this as 3D hunting as thats the picture that is developed in their brain. Jump dogs have the ability to process these 3D pictures, most dogs are 1 maybe 2 dimensional.

[Alabama John]

SR Patch
Houndsman!

I agree too.

Also, I have never seen what is a jumpdog down here that was a trailer.

All I have seen and owned were winders or seekers.

Dogs that tried to trail one up, usually has the rabbit jumped ahead of it by one of the above.

[Hare Hunter]

My three adult dogs all are good jump dogs, that being said the old female is about the best I've ever hunted over, she will soon be 11 years old, she started at about 6 months jumping her own rabbit, she will not waste time in cover that don't hold hare, I believe Patch hit it on the head and Desire being the most dominant of the three. It takes brains but without desire to be the one to find the rabbit it will be very ordinary in jumping ability. JMHO Hare