"Good Breeders"

[Keystone Kid]

Most breeders (95%+) aren’t knowledgeable of the traits and bad habits they’re passing on in their breeding program. Also some just don’t care! Ribbons, trophies, prestige, and $ are the top four priorities that mean the most.

Its hard to find that 5%- of the good reputable beagle breeders. It’s that 5%- that just loves rabbit hunting, field trailing, and putting good beagles in good gundog homes. Putting good gundog beagles in the appropriate homes just makes a good breeders day, or even week. It usually takes hard work and dedication to find those 5%- of those good breeders. But just remember, good things never come easy. If they did, everyone would have them.

[blunder]

A-er,, what's the difference between this

It’s that 5%- that just loves rabbit hunting, field trailing

and this

Ribbons, trophies, prestige, and $ are the top four priorities that mean the most

Believe me there are far more than %5 that just love rabbit hunting, and field trialing, just as there are far more than 5% that just love other dog sports. Some of us even do both

Get a grip,,,, boy

tom

[Keystone Kid]

A-er,, what's the difference between this

It’s that 5%- that just loves rabbit hunting, field trailing

and this

Ribbons, trophies, prestige, and $ are the top four priorities that mean the most

Believe me there are far more than %5 that just love rabbit hunting, and field trialing, just as there are far more than 5% that just love other dog sports. Some of us even do both

Get a grip,,,, boy

tom

I'm simply saying that to be "a good breeder" you have to love all of it: rabbit hunting, field trailing, and putting good beagles in good gundog homes. If you don't, “you as a breeders” and “your breeding program” are lacking a very important part of what is considered to be a “reputable breeder”.

Ribbons, trophies, prestige, and $ are the top four priorities that mean the most to un-reputable breeders.

[DaManBeagles]

What does field trialing and a good beagle have in common.
I understand Conformation,hunt and bringing a rabbit to the GUN>
But Field Trialing I get confused????? There are field trials for Dogs that CRAWL and large pack on HARE!!!!!!

DaManBeagles
Terre Haute In.

[blunder]

and putting good beagles in good gundog homes

Noooooooo, there are great Beagle homes that are not gundog homes, so that statement is to limited.

You really arn't implying that good breeders should give their pups away are you??

Some of "us breeders" (good or bad is in the eye of the beholder) litterally have thousands of dollars invested in our dogs ya know.

lets stop and put some things in prespective;
The [REAL] reason for showing or trialing a dog is to prove it's worth as breeding stock. The show proves the dogs conformation, and the trial proves the dogs abilities.
After proving a dogs worth as breeding stock it becomes somewhat the norm that they will be bred to dogs that have also proven themselves, so they become expencive.
Lots of breeders follow their own dreams, and not being your dreams does not make them a bad breeder.

So I'm still trying to figure out where you are comming from

good breeding programs are not accidents, and if you look around you can find lots of good breeding programs
Would you considder this a good breeding program???
I have a litter of his grandkids on the ground right now



tom

[Northwind Kennel]

I agree, I think they should also focus on a dog that wouldn't eat grass or sticks, or the occasional turd eater. That shouldn't be too hard to breed out of them right. What the hell are these breeders thinking.

Chris

[tommyg]

Most breeders (95%+) aren’t knowledgeable of the traits and bad habits they’re passing on in their breeding program. Also some just don’t care! Ribbons, trophies, prestige, and $ are the top four priorities that mean the most.

Its hard to find that 5%- of the good reputable beagle breeders. It’s that 5%- that just loves rabbit hunting, field trailing, and putting good beagles in good gundog homes. Putting good gundog beagles in the appropriate homes just makes a good breeders day, or even week. It usually takes hard work and dedication to find those 5%- of those good breeders. But just remember, good things never come easy. If they did, everyone would have them.

I agree with you. Improving the Breed is what it should be about.

[blunder]

Most breeders (95%+) aren’t knowledgeable of the traits and bad habits they’re passing on in their breeding program. Also some just don’t care! Ribbons, trophies, prestige, and $ are the top four priorities that mean the most.

Its hard to find that 5%- of the good reputable beagle breeders. It’s that 5%- that just loves rabbit hunting, field trailing, and putting good beagles in good gundog homes. Putting good gundog beagles in the appropriate homes just makes a good breeders day, or even week. It usually takes hard work and dedication to find those 5%- of those good breeders. But just remember, good things never come easy. If they did, everyone would have them.

I agree with you. Improving the Breed is what it should be about.

Did you ever consider that the day a breed comes into existence as a breed
is the day that the breed is the best it will ever be????

When we "improve" a breed we create a new breed.
Our job is to "maintain" a breed as best we can hopefully making as few
mistakes as possible along the way.
In other words we try to "improve" our line back to the breed
standard, not beyond it.

tom

[Keystone Kid]

You have to be an avid “rabbit hunter” to know what is needed, and expected in a good beagle.

Field trailing in gundog events allows you to see large quantities of beagles, bloodlines, how they perform, and their temperament.

Sure I to also run with friends out side of trials, and during hunting season, but that limits a Beaglers vision greatly (creates tunnel vision & contributes to kennel blindness). For the amount of quality beagle you get to see are very limited. Field trailing, hunting/field trial websites, email, and talking on the phone to other fellow Beaglers increases our insight in our sport.

There is no short cute! To be a “good breeder” of “hunting beagles” it takes all three: Avid rabbit hunter, field trailer, and putting good beagles in good gundog homes. If you lack one of the three, you our only 2/3 of what it takes to be a “good breeder” of hunting beagles.

[Keystone Kid]

Most breeders (95%+) aren’t knowledgeable of the traits and bad habits they’re passing on in their breeding program. Also some just don’t care! Ribbons, trophies, prestige, and $ are the top four priorities that mean the most.

Its hard to find that 5%- of the good reputable beagle breeders. It’s that 5%- that just loves rabbit hunting, field trailing, and putting good beagles in good gundog homes. Putting good gundog beagles in the appropriate homes just makes a good breeders day, or even week. It usually takes hard work and dedication to find those 5%- of those good breeders. But just remember, good things never come easy. If they did, everyone would have them.

I agree with you. Improving the Breed is what it should be about.

Did you ever consider that the day a breed comes into existence as a breed
is the day that the breed is the best it will ever be????

When we "improve" a breed we create a new breed.
Our job is to "maintain" a breed as best we can hopefully making as few
mistakes as possible along the way.
In other words we try to "improve" our line back to the breed
standard, not beyond it.

tom

Blunder, Does Nascar or Indy (I’m not for sure of the spelling) change its name went the cars get faster, but still run on the same track? NO

Beagles should get faster and faster, but still stay “under control” if “breeders” do their job. Speed should “never” be the issue! Beaglers need to be honest with them selves first, and then with other Beaglers. Some beagles are just what are called “Overly Competitive”. A beagle should desire to run the front, but settle for the “back seat” till the time is right. The beagle that does this is what all “good/reputable breeders” should desire.

[rlsbeagles]

i really don't understand some of this you got to be a trailer to be a good breeder,,, i don't trail,, so i can't be a good breeder ??? even though i got dog's that i have let a friend trail an has done very well !!!! i know i breed toget the best pup's so i don't look for paper... i look for what my bitch is lacking an find a stud to try to correct it... but maybe that is wrong.. maybe i should breed papper to papper for the best dog??? an the reason i don't trail is because i think it's to politcal...but i do have 1 dog here that if i could find someone to handle i'll confess i would let her finish for i could have the papper.... but anyway i think i'm a good breeder an the people that get's my pup's do so who else matter's keep them hound's in the brush an keep the gun ready thank's ronnie

[blunder]

of hunting beagles.

Oh now we are adding a qualifier.

BUT,,, do you think that the Beagle bred to hunt Cottons in the southern
states would necessarily be the "perfect" Beagle for hunting Shoes in the
northern states????
Even "the way" a Beagle hunts for one person, might not be what another
hunter wants.

Showing dogs also "allows you to see large quantities of beagles,
bloodlines, how they perform, and their temperament"

Beagles should get faster and faster

ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE In a perfect world Beagles should run at
the "proper" speed, no faster, no slower.
If you continue to breed for more speed there will come a time when your
Beagles become whippets. Is that what you want??? I know some really
good Whippet breeders,, you don't have to waite until your dogs get
there, you can have one today. Way faster than Beagles

tom-- who hunted rabbits with sight hounds long before finding out
that Beagles are more fun

[xdawg]

I see it this way...

We as beaglers will be reaping tomorrow what we sew today...

Both trialing and hunting (running) dogs are very important tools to help breeders see how their dogs compare against other lines and what steps they need to make to improve their own stock.

Honestly, thats why i think Backyard breeders are a very important tool, we are thoses who still run/trial.

The biggest problem i see in the beagle world is pride. If we see something better we won't get get some... A man could have the best dog and be putting out some really nice pups yet thoses around him won't own a single dog due to pride...

There is no reason why we can't have a good looking rabbit dog... Confirmation insures longterm health thus increasing a dogs total output...

Take it easy,
Jack

[TC]

Keyston Wrote

Most breeders (95%+) aren’t knowledgeable of the traits and bad habits they’re passing on in their breeding program. Also some just don’t care! Ribbons, trophies, prestige, and $ are the top four priorities that mean the most.

Hoowey! I think there is more breeders out there that produce great hounds and care more for their hounds then you believe! Sure there is those that just breed paper. They do this so they can sell the accomplishment of others, not their own. You look at some of the sale adds and see this frequently. When they sell a pup it is FC so and so line bred, but when you look at the ped it is 4th gen back.... What are they selling, they are selling someone else's accomplishments. There is no guarentee that those pups are even going to come close to that. Now that is when you see that someone is chasing the ribbon, or the $ but falls short of making any money at it when you add up all the costs to breeding program.

Many folks I think, though look at their dog and critique it and see what their dog is lacking and look for a stud/dam that has what they need in their program, granted you maybe doing a waltz to get there doing an outcross, but at least this breeder is looking at his particular line to see what is needed.

I think 5% is a very low estimation. Also I think that if you are breeding just to a stud because of the FC or CH is a mistake. Not all dogs are trialed or shown. Yes the idea originally was for FC and CH is to get a better dog or keep the standard, but somewhere the ribbon got in the way.

There is some dogs that should have never been awarded top prize at FC or CH or CHB. But this is the kicker,,,, when that judge gave that dog the FC/CH or CHB that judge just promoted bad breeding to those particular hounds. There is many examples, but as any breeder knows they can see what dogs really shouldn't have been put up.

A wise breeder will look beyond the prize. They will look at what their kennel needs.


xdog wrote:

We as beaglers will be reaping tomorrow what we sew today...

Both trialing and hunting (running) dogs are very important tools to help breeders see how their dogs compare against other lines and what steps they need to make to improve their own stock.

Honestly, thats why i think Backyard breeders are a very important tool, we are thoses who still run/trial.

The biggest problem i see in the beagle world is pride. If we see something better we won't get get some... A man could have the best dog and be putting out some really nice pups yet thoses around him won't own a single dog due to pride...

There is no reason why we can't have a good looking rabbit dog... Confirmation insures longterm health thus increasing a dogs total output...

I agree 100% well said! Each format when used appropriately has huge benefits. There is a ton of dogs that have gone to pet homes, just rabbit hunters that should have been campained verses others that are out there getting campained because the breeder simply did not have enough paper on the wall to promote that dog the way some are promoted. And like you said others that see what they need won't buy a pup from someone because they have to much pride. Or the breeder just won't crow my dog has FC so and so in its line because that breeder is going off their own merit or breeding. I think it is unfair of a breeder to do this when they are out crossing their dogs, or even line breeding, due to the fact some line breedings have and will produce a proverbial nightmare unless the breeder is really studying the needs of their kennel.

Blunder you have made some very good points, I agree that the beagle has to adapt to its environment. There is some lines that do very well in both environments, then there is the ones that can't do worth a hoot, are those maybe the particular dogs that should not have been promoted? Is that the breeders excuse for their dog, that can't run both?

This is where I believe you get into the style of the hound. When breeding you need to know where you want to go, what is needed to get there, and yes sometimes it is a crap shoot, you might get what you don't want from a breeding. But being honest with yourself is the hardest part of breeding. Looking at the faults recognizing the faults and trying to enhance the positive and reduce the faults is what most breeders are trying for. If it was breeding for money the breeders would be producing puggles..... Now ribbons, there is a few that chase the ribbon at any cost to include walking over a friendship that would have been their best ali in the sport.

BUT on the most part I believe there is more breeders out there trying to get or promote the standard and try not to go backwards. Givie those breeders credit!

[/b]

[Keystone Kid]

What I’ve been simply trying to say is that I think a good breeder of “Gundog Beagles” has to do all three (hunt, trial, & desire to put good gundogs in good homes).

I’ve been rabbit hunting since the mid-1970’s. I’ve owned and hunted with beagles since 1982. I’ve been trialing gundog beagles since 1984. I’ve went to many AKC, ARHA, & UKC Beagle Gundog Events. I’ve been judging field trials since 1985. I’ve been an AKC Licensed judge since 1990. I’ve hunted Hare in the north, and cottontail rabbits all over the mid-west. I also receive great joy when I place beagles in the appropriate homes.

1) It starts with being an avid rabbit hunter (hare, cottontail, or swamper’s).
2) You have to also enjoy field trailing because of the people, dogs-betterment of the breed, fellowship & mutual interests you share with the other Beaglers. Not chasing Ribbons, trophies, prestige, and $.
3) Lastly, the most important part; putting good gundog beagles in the appropriate homes. Try your best not to let a good hunt/trial dog go to just a gundog/pet home. They need to be campaigned in the circuits.

If your lacking just one of these three, your like a wheel that’s “out of alignment” and probably even worse. You’re lopsided or have a flat spot in your breeding program.