Trashproof?

tommyg · Post by **tommyg** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 pm

Ralph glad to hear someone talk about traits---I trust traits alot more than Bloodlines and Pedigrees. I've seen Dixie Honor a deer runner and comeback time after time,she will tell on a trash runner,that is a desireable Trait to breed,also she as grity as any hound on the ground and has tons of desire and hunt. Each individual hound has its own traits desireable or not desireable,thats how I breed. I try to match hounds acroring to the traits they have I like and maybe try to breed more desireable traits. If a Branko or Bramlett or any other Bloodline shows the traits I like I will breed to it. So if you have 2 hounds that don't run deer and have never ran them why shouldn't they throw some pups that have that trait also? Maybe not all will but a few should and have taken that trait. I've learned not to shock the guts out of a hound,it does nothing but harm,I will break one but you can be sure its gone,I will sell it as a broke hound which I have no desire to own a hound that has ran a deer,anytime.

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:48 pm

Ha, won't pack, now we're on to something totally different then being naturally deer proof. Are you now saying that they are loners and that they may be the trait you have perfected in your line and NOT the "TRASH" proof trait? I think Swamper and Southern beagles are right on target with their thinking. Swamper maybe you'll get a taker on your offer to bring you one of those Naturally Trash proof litters to raise up in your environment but I doubt it. I'm sure you would keep records of what was going on with them and that would serve as the data for proving or disproving the Trashproof claim.
I didn't quit understand the reference to teenage boys in the scope of discussing being Trash proof. I can however tell you my daddy always told me that Blondes were more fun and so when one of us boys got the car keys we got the girls and it was like this: one boy one blonde two boys one blonde one brunette, three boys one blonde one brunette one red head. You know I never did become brunette or red head proof over ALL those years although I did try to follow my daddy's persistance that blondes were more fun. I'll be the first to admit that I certainly wasn't Trash proof as when I got cast out on the hunt I ran whatever I thought I could catch. Oh yeah, I was a loner too but I could pack up when I had too. I guess I didn't get that blonde trait in the genitics or maybe I did but learned that it was just as fun to run the brunette or the red head.

tommyg · Post by **tommyg** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:52 pm

warddog wrote:Ha, won't pack, now we're on to something totally different then being naturally deer proof. Are you now saying that they are loners and that they may be the trait you have perfected in your line and NOT the "TRASH" proof trait? I think Swamper and Southern beagles are right on target with their thinking. Swamper maybe you'll get a taker on your offer to bring you one of those Naturally Trash proof litters to raise up in your environment but I doubt it. I'm sure you would keep records of what was going on with them and that would serve as the data for proving or disproving the Trashproof claim.
I didn't quit understand the reference to teenage boys in the scope of discussing being Trash proof. I can however tell you my daddy always told me that Blondes were more fun and so when one of us boys got the car keys we got the girls and it was like this: one boy one blonde two boys one blonde one brunette, three boys one blonde one brunette one red head. You know I never did become brunette or red head proof over ALL those years although I did try to follow my daddy's persistance that blondes were more fun. I'll be the first to admit that I certainly wasn't Trash proof as when I got cast out on the hunt I ran whatever I thought I could catch. Oh yeah, I was a loner too but I could pack up when I had too. I guess I didn't get that blonde trait in the genitics or maybe I did but learned that it was just as fun to run the brunette or the red head.

Were talking opinions here Warddog. Everyone has one yours is just as good as anyother till you become a smart a--.

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:28 pm

What do you mean me become a smart a**. Maybe you better go back and read what has been posted. I merely made an analogy just as pertinent as the car slipping on oil or any other that has been made throughout this thread. Yes, you guys are talking opinion as that is ALL the claim of having a Naturally Trash proof line is because it can NOT be substantiated with any consistant validity. When someone claims they have a trashproof line then the burden of proof is upon them to present that proof of their claim. The fact is that minus any evidence the claim is just a claim or an opinion with NO foundation. Trashproof means 100% will absolutely NOT run any trash under any circumstance. Deer proof means that the dog will NOT run a deer 100% of the time under any circumstance. Now that's a pretty big mouthful all you or anyone else making that claim have to do is prove that to be a fact. If that's being a smart a** then so be it but in my line of work we don't deal with opinions because as you know everybody has one and is also entitled to one. Where the rubber meets the road is when you have to prove what you are claiming.

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:40 pm

All I got to say is the thread says NATURALLY TRASH PROOF. Not trashproof if.

Farwest · Post by **Farwest** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:55 pm

AlabamaSwamper, there are a pile of hounds out there that you couldn't make run a deer. Sometime you have to be smarter than the hounds. They major problem is most people don't want to cull deer chasers. The shock coller fixes everything. I know when I was younger and ran hounds in NS there were very few deer chasers because the runs usually ended up with a bang!
For those that think it shows desire

I think that is pretty funny, some of the greats like Eastcoast trimmer , Ranger dan, ect.. hounds that won more trials than anyone else never had to be broke.

Ralph Pearson · Post by **Ralph Pearson** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:27 am

THANKS FARWEST. The statement about my dogs being loners is funny. You don't know much about breeding dogs wardog. My dogs pack good and you skip the part about them harking to another dog that is lying and then not harking to them anymore. That is what a dog is doing when it is run with your deer runner. They pack because they want to run the rabbit and know that if a dog has the track they should go to it. A good Beagle should NOT pack to a dog that is not running an honest track. That is part of the trouble with you and swampers dogs. They pack because they are either too intersted in other dogs, they may be lazy and rely on other dogs to do the heavy lifting or they are too competitive and hark in no matter what. If your dog is running a rabbit and the pack jumps a rabbit does your dog quit its track to go to the pack. You can see that that can be good or bad. You folks need to get out more and see what is outs there in other formats and hunting strains. I promise you I am not hunting the same bloodlines you are so how do you know what is out there unless you have seen it. I am guessing there are lots of things in the hunting world I have seen that you haven't. I know where both of you are coming from. Your dogs are deer runners and you are jealous maybe. If you can;t have straight dogs you don't want anyone else to have any. As for the loner comment. If you need a trait in your family, breed to a dog with a whole bunch of it and then you usually only get a part of it and not the whole shebang. Some traits are caused by the number of genes a dog has for that trait. Its an accumulaton. other traits are caused just by the diminant or recessive nature of them. Eye color a good example. If you have 14 inch dogs and you want to change your family to 16 inch dogs would you simply breed to a 16 inch dog. I wouldn't. I would breed to a dog that was 18 inches and the pups woulkd show an average over time and in the end you would have 16 inch hounds if you selected for it. If I want more independance in a family with too much packing instinct, I would use a dog with a whole lot of independance because you won't get the full dose in the later litters. That is what I did and it worked. Instead of understanding that, you prefer to call my dogs loners. First time I ever heard that term used with a Beagle. Our dogs circled over 200 rabbits this past season and didn't run any deer and have never been shocked or punished for running a deer. I imagine you can find fault with that too. Be my guest. I think the term used is called selective breeding. Of course if you never aquire the traits you can't breed them. In the past I not only hunted rabbits but hunted for good traits that I could breed into my line of dogs. Luther Burbank was the greatest plant breeder in history and he introduced many fantastic food plants and trees in his career. He made crosses and produced thousands and thousands of offspring in order to get that one that he could use to carry forward his quest for a new improved plant. he would sort through thousands of plants and knew that it only took one with the trait he was looking for to start a strain or line. Its not magic or wishful thinking that did this but hard work and investment of time and money.

Gbeagle · Post by **Gbeagle** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:50 am

You keep referencing to things that have been manipulated . The beagle is a natural scent hound its nature is to follow scent . You have manipulated your " strain" by culling deer runners and obviously this strain is still not deer proof if you are still having to cull .

All I got to say is the thread says NATURALLY TRASH PROOF. Not trashproof if.

For those that think it shows desire I think that is pretty funny, some of the greats like Eastcoast trimmer , Ranger dan, ect.. hounds that won more trials than anyone else never had to be broke.

This ain't about individual dogs we all have seen an individual that will do it we are talking claims to a strain that wont run deer or trash . How do you know they didn't have to be broke ? Were you there before they started trialing ? Did you see every race that they ever ran ?

Were talking opinions here Warddog. Everyone has one yours is just as good as anyother till you become a smart a--.

If you go back in the thread you will see who is being a condescending smart a$$ . They started out from the first post that they made on this thread !!!!

xdawg · Post by **xdawg** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:55 am

Yesterday, while running with CRABTREE he started across a ditch tryin to see if a few younger pups would chase a deer we seen and the crazy birds jumped a rabbit instead....

Trashy Things.... lol...

Thanks for the great running Mike & Zach.....

-Jack

AlabamaSwamper · Post by **AlabamaSwamper** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:03 am

"Naturally Trashproof"= Will not run trash no matter what circumstances they are put in.

"Trashproof"= Dogs that are trained on rabbits and show no desire to run anything different

2 totally different things. ONe is trained, one is genetic.

My offer still stands. Bring me a litter that you think has no potential to run trash (remember, their genetic code tells them to "only" run rabbits) and we'll see what they are bred to do.

I bet 10-1 they'll run anything their allowed to run. If they are "naturally" trashproof, you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

Come one, come all. I'll take the first litter offered. Remember, while being trained to run deer, they must start on rabbits and run them only. THey live in the same stuff so that shouldn't be a problem, right?

Ralph Pearson · Post by **Ralph Pearson** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:21 pm

I will be sending you a litter of traditional brace dogs. Let us know how that works out for you. Now let me get this straight. You train all your pups to run deer first and then you shock the crap out of them and train them on rabbits while they are wearing the shock collar. Sounds like a plan to me.

AlabamaSwamper · Post by **AlabamaSwamper** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:12 pm

Ralph Pearson wrote:I will be sending you a litter of traditional brace dogs. Let us know how that works out for you. Now let me get this straight. You train all your pups to run deer first and then you shock the crap out of them and train them on rabbits while they are wearing the shock collar. Sounds like a plan to me.

ROFL!

Where you come up with this stuff is beyond me.

Send me a litter of brace dogs. I guarantee they'll run a deer. May not be very fast but they'll run them.

And no, I try to keep them away from deer but every once in a blue moon, I have to shock a dog. Some never need it again, some need it another time or two but they get the picture.

tommyg · Post by **tommyg** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:56 pm

mike crabtree wrote:All I got to say is the thread says NATURALLY TRASH PROOF. Not trashproof if.

Mike if a Hound don't ever trash the I'd say its Naturaly Trashproof. As far as a Bloodline being naturaly trashproof well I belive its next to impossable to find one thats why I deal with Indivual hounds not Bloodlines. Hope you and Jack had some good running,we have been here. Come up and run some time,bring Jack,he says he wants to come up and run you're welcome anytime or I can come down.

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:52 pm

Ralf, you seem to insinuate that all of us responding to this thread are newbys to beagles and hounds. I can tell you that I have been around hounds my entire life both coon hounds and beagles and followed a many of them since I was old enough to walk. I've seen dogs that would NOT take to a deer but I've seen the brothers and sisters flat burn one up. I've seen one tree an oppossum but the littermate brother quit a coon to run one. I've crossed dogs that had never ran a deer only to have their off spring run them. I've had some mighty fine hounds in my day but never have I had one I would guarantee to be Naturally Trash proof and I doubt I ever will. If I ever do I'll quarantee you one thing, I would be taking Swamper up on his offer and we'd be putting some change where the mouth is. I'll also be skipping all the way to the bank when I have proven through peer review that I in fact had a naturally trash proof line.

Farwest , my cousin and I have line breed Ranger Dan stuff and he has a male that was the worst deer runner I had ever seen in my life. The others had not bothered with deer UNTIL ran with him and boom they ran them. I didn't think I'd ever get him broke but I did. He bought him at around 18 months old and we were told that he was put into a running pen that had deer in it. Guess what after being started on rabbits he started to like, no not like but LOVE them deer. Saw him quit rabbit tracks to run deer. I broke him without the use of a shock collar and he is now one rabbit burning machine. By the way the others haven't ran any either but I'll not guarantee anyone that they won't. I don't break trash runners with a shock collar but I sure do run them with one on as you can never be possitive that they won't take one of those long legged white tails out of the country.

Ralph Pearson · Post by **Ralph Pearson** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:05 pm

You guarentee it uh! Have you trained brace dogs before? Could you teach my Lab to retrieve deer? its people like you that are hurting the breed. You don't even try to breed the deer running out of them because you ain't smart enough to know it can be done. Breed your deer runners and then try to convince people that it is OK. Sounds like another real plan. A good idea would be to give a shock collar to anyone that buys your pups and tell them " here, you are going to need this"!! Let them use it until they think its safe to run without it and they could return it and you could give it to the next person. Hopefully people will start putting that info in their stud ads. Something like " Old Drum throws the best pups in the country and his pups only have to be shocked 4 times before they quit running deer! I will even loan you a collar. Some of them never quit but hey, thats the breaks". Maybe we could rate the stud dogs on how high you have to turn the collar on. "Old Drums pups use the low setting but if you buy a Jake pup you should put it on high. I won't loan you my collar if you buy a Sparky pup as I may not get it back". When you sell a pup do you tell the folks that the parents were deer runners? What bloodline do you have? Thanks

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Trashproof?

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