Oversized Dogs Dont Belong

[gus]

Pine MT, I'm sorry if I offended. I just object to the idea that thirteen inch beagles are "runts" or culls. I don't believe that smaller beagles are any less healthy than sixteen inch. I've owned all sizes and don't understand the comparison. There is a gentleman in Kentucky that has an outstanding FC stud that is 15 inch or better. The dog has produced several outstanding bitches that are placing in AKC SPO trials. However, I have yet to see a male produced by this stud in the placing hounds listing. They are too big to compete. It seems such a waste to keep a line of beagles that are so close to the size limit that about half of the offspring are outside the limit for competition. Instead of cheating it seems it would be more sensible to breed dogs within the standard.

[simplepaliving]

Why dont the breeders cull the big dogs?

[HatterasBob]

Well, Big males don't finish growing until they are 15 months old. So you want the breeders to keep them until they are a year and a half old in order to cull them. UNREALISTIC! You certainly can not tell if an eight week old pup is going to be big. In a litter last year, my runt, 12 3/4" at 6 months, grew over an 1 1/2 in the next 2 months. Until they stop growing their final size is just a guess. JMHO

[Pine Mt Beagles]

GUS

YOU DID NOT OFFEND ME AT ALL ,I RESPECT EVERY ONES OPINION I JUST DON'T HAVE TO AGREE,,,, I THINK EVERYONE SHOULD BREED AND OWN WHAT THEY LIKE.IF YOU SEE A DOG AT A TRIAL YOU THINK IS TO BIG DO WHAT YOU THINK IS BEST.IF YOU GO TO A TRIAL AND HAVE A BIG DOG, YOU SHOULD EXPECT TO GET MESAURED .THATS JUST PART OF THE RULES.I THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO KNOW THE RULES ANYWAY.THANKS FOR THE INPUT,,,

KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES

[Pine Mt Beagles]

[Pine Mt Beagles]

DNA

[Pine Mt Beagles]

SORRY ABOUT ALL THE,,, POSTS,,MY,, 3 ,,YEAR OLD GRAND SON WAS HELPING,,,,,,
PMB

[simplepaliving]

Well, Big males don't finish growing until they are 15 months old. So you want the breeders to keep them until they are a year and a half old in order to cull them. UNREALISTIC! You certainly can not tell if an eight week old pup is going to be big. In a litter last year, my runt, 12 3/4" at 6 months, grew over an 1 1/2 in the next 2 months. Until they stop growing their final size is just a guess. JMHO

No I mean the breedes who own them when they are mature, Its not hard once they mature if they are large dont breed them. Is this out of the question?

[HatterasBob]

I believe that's what this discussion is about. If oversized dogs are not allowed to run then they won't be titled. Without titles the demand for breeding won't exist. Besides, when I breed 2 - 13" hounds I always get a pup at least 14 1/2" and a runt under 12". Many hare hunters like oversized dogs, they handle deep snow well and they are cheap.

[Bev]

...if i am outing anyone its NKC for allowing these dogs to be trialed..

As much as I have no particular love for NKC, the onus is on the individuals and the clubs. NKC doesn't have webcams set up at the trials to catch folks lettin' the bigguns run. NKC has a rule - if you think a dog is too tall to run, ask for it to be measured before you go to the field. All clubs have a breed inspector who's responsible to carry out those wishes, or he/she may request a measurement on his/her own.

This is something on which we need to police ourselves. UKC has it down pretty tight by requiring all dogs to be premeasured at the hunts unless they have a permanent measurement card. AKC - the responsibility lies with the judges. NKC - the responsibility lies with the beaglers.

I'm not disagreeing with you... oversized dogs shouldn't run. If they can't run, they can't title. If they can't title, folks normally won't breed to them and that helps to keep the breed in standard... which is the whole goal of not going over 15". It's not to prevent an unfair advantage thing, it's to prevent people from breeding the beagle out of standard.

[HatterasBob]

If I could have said it that well, I'd be an EDITOR! ;-)

[tiffinis]

My 16" Patch hounds dont hunt trials. They hunt rabbits....better then any other beagles in our area. Too bad they cant compete, they could whoop some serious short beagle butt. But since I know they are too tall. I dont even bother.

PS. How exactly does one cook and eat trials anyhow??

[HatterasBob]

tiffinis,
My short beagles would be willing to let you try;-) I do run and gun in PA. Maybe I could convince you that beagles that meet the standard can also carry the mail. From my point of view, the little guys can get in and under thick cover better then the big ones. Now, I do expect those big Patch hounds to be faster on the sight chases across open pastures, after my little ones have jumped them.

[tiffinis]

We mostly run christmas tree fields and briar patches to give the rabbits a sporting chance. Our male Sage is so fast he could catch them in the open fields. His mother caught several before they were shot.

ps... I was looking at MD yesterday. From RoundTop in Gettysburg!!

[HatterasBob]

tiffinis,
Is that where you are from, Gettysburg? I use to hunt there in the late 60s and 70s, then the Amish moved out. Man that placed was loaded with Pheasants.