The beautiful thing is, nobody is forcing anyone to read or comment on this board. Everyone is here because they choose too......This is an opinion oreinted board and opinions are going to clash, this just happens to be one of them....
As stated earlier, when I see people encouraging new breeders to inbreed and nobody is giving the cons, I speak up. With my 2 unsuccesful attempts and hearing of numerous other unsuccesful attempts I think thats only fair....
All the slander to me is comical.....some these same guys arguing back and forth will be trialing together and laughing about it.....Emotions flair, some add the sarcasm, some are just clueless, it all makes for interesting thread. Thats why these threads get so many views...........enjoy what you like, ignore the rest!
P.S. I havent watched t.v. in years, some of you pay $40 a month or more for cable to watch people argue, sex, drugs, violence......this fills my void...and doesnt cost me anything.....lol
inbreeding ???
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
Smithbros1
I'm not trying to avoid your ??
So here's what i've done and granted I know a little more now then I did back then.First cross was a full bro to sis cross have 1 female that is nothing to brag about made this cross to save on nose power from the original cross I started with now most guys wouldn't even consider breeding back to this female as she has some faults and lack of hunt is the major one BUT when line bred back to the first gen male produce some good dogs have 3 around from 2 cross that we keep feeding.Second time I cross a father daughter 2 pups 1 of each I have the female she's a identical clone to her mother looks,speed, mouth, hunt, the male didn't really turn out as the guy that owns him is a wannabe hunter and only hunts sometimes.The 3rd cross was a mother to son cross I kept a female she ended up not making my cut and was given to a guy for hunting and I've never heard back from him and I just sent her papers back as DEAD.Have I made some mistakes you darn right I have,have I learned from them sure have do I think I know it all, NOT by a long shot.Now would I have known any of this had I not done any inbreeding NO.Will I continue to pursue it YES.Nobody ever said breeding no matter what type is choosen was easy otherwise we would have the prefect beagles running around everywhere,right.And even though I feel inbreeding is the way to go that's just me,I'm looking to stack the deck in my favor the best way possible with the least amount of varibles.My next inbred cross was a father daughter cross and out of 3 pups 1 female is here and at 6 mnths old she's doing a good job.My next 2 crosses for this year are another fahter daughter and I'm looking to get a top male so as to hopefully cross back on the previous female.And I plan on make a thriple in bred back to a inbred daughter that I mentioned as to get what I can male or female .The reason I'm doing this is my original male from gen 1 is getting old like 11yrs although he is an out cross dog his mother had nose power up the butt and the father was a fast winding speed demon.Now you ask what my goals are well now here's what I'm attempting to do I want pups starting before 6mnths old and doing it fairly well by that time or else CULL.Early starting.I want conformation for all day,day after day if need be hunting not hunt one day rest for 3-4 to recover.I want to either break down my line so as to produce females that only have 3-4 pups and only come into heat once a year,now you ask why's that well years ago my first wife somewhat explain the genetic square to me can't remeber the correct name but anyhow if a female only has 3-4 pups all your traits are put into a smaller pick and you should be able to find the good one or two faster and end up with less culls and if a female only comes inheat once a year that's more hunting time for me and her.Now in order to get this from the females I either need to inbreed the hell out of them to the point of breaking down my line or I need to hope for some type of mutation the does this for me but right now I have a female that only comes in once a year and her mother only came in once a year and so far the inbred daughter has only been in once.So like I stated before I'm still in the infancy stage here and have a long way to go with alot of varibles to work with but slowly one trait at a time I'm trying to make progress,and I have some other goals that I didn't post as well.So now for all you guys that think I'm nuts so be it but fear not as I'm not gonna take over your precious field trial dogs as you know them and I'm not gonna create the next brace dogs either I'm just a plain old hunter looking to preserve some cold nose basicly 0 degree running beagles that I can count on and or fairly perdict what I will get from my next cross so to speak and not quess on what I'm getting.Hope this answers most your ??
I'm not trying to avoid your ??
So here's what i've done and granted I know a little more now then I did back then.First cross was a full bro to sis cross have 1 female that is nothing to brag about made this cross to save on nose power from the original cross I started with now most guys wouldn't even consider breeding back to this female as she has some faults and lack of hunt is the major one BUT when line bred back to the first gen male produce some good dogs have 3 around from 2 cross that we keep feeding.Second time I cross a father daughter 2 pups 1 of each I have the female she's a identical clone to her mother looks,speed, mouth, hunt, the male didn't really turn out as the guy that owns him is a wannabe hunter and only hunts sometimes.The 3rd cross was a mother to son cross I kept a female she ended up not making my cut and was given to a guy for hunting and I've never heard back from him and I just sent her papers back as DEAD.Have I made some mistakes you darn right I have,have I learned from them sure have do I think I know it all, NOT by a long shot.Now would I have known any of this had I not done any inbreeding NO.Will I continue to pursue it YES.Nobody ever said breeding no matter what type is choosen was easy otherwise we would have the prefect beagles running around everywhere,right.And even though I feel inbreeding is the way to go that's just me,I'm looking to stack the deck in my favor the best way possible with the least amount of varibles.My next inbred cross was a father daughter cross and out of 3 pups 1 female is here and at 6 mnths old she's doing a good job.My next 2 crosses for this year are another fahter daughter and I'm looking to get a top male so as to hopefully cross back on the previous female.And I plan on make a thriple in bred back to a inbred daughter that I mentioned as to get what I can male or female .The reason I'm doing this is my original male from gen 1 is getting old like 11yrs although he is an out cross dog his mother had nose power up the butt and the father was a fast winding speed demon.Now you ask what my goals are well now here's what I'm attempting to do I want pups starting before 6mnths old and doing it fairly well by that time or else CULL.Early starting.I want conformation for all day,day after day if need be hunting not hunt one day rest for 3-4 to recover.I want to either break down my line so as to produce females that only have 3-4 pups and only come into heat once a year,now you ask why's that well years ago my first wife somewhat explain the genetic square to me can't remeber the correct name but anyhow if a female only has 3-4 pups all your traits are put into a smaller pick and you should be able to find the good one or two faster and end up with less culls and if a female only comes inheat once a year that's more hunting time for me and her.Now in order to get this from the females I either need to inbreed the hell out of them to the point of breaking down my line or I need to hope for some type of mutation the does this for me but right now I have a female that only comes in once a year and her mother only came in once a year and so far the inbred daughter has only been in once.So like I stated before I'm still in the infancy stage here and have a long way to go with alot of varibles to work with but slowly one trait at a time I'm trying to make progress,and I have some other goals that I didn't post as well.So now for all you guys that think I'm nuts so be it but fear not as I'm not gonna take over your precious field trial dogs as you know them and I'm not gonna create the next brace dogs either I'm just a plain old hunter looking to preserve some cold nose basicly 0 degree running beagles that I can count on and or fairly perdict what I will get from my next cross so to speak and not quess on what I'm getting.Hope this answers most your ??
-
klrconcrete
- Posts: 442
- Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:05 am
- Location: Michigan
-
smithbros.1
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:45 pm
Steve: I just wanted to know about the traits that make a true GUNDOG. Nose, Line Running abiilty, Check work, good on snow, size, Stamina, speed, confirmation, jump dog, desire & overall health. I have never heard of any body breeding for heat cycles 
. I am sure this is not the only thing you are breeding for, lets hear about how you are making more consistant rabbit hounds. Thanks Jason
. I am sure this is not the only thing you are breeding for, lets hear about how you are making more consistant rabbit hounds. Thanks JasonDon't worry about what people think....most don't do it often!!!
Are my efforts paying off am I making as good or better gundogs.
Well now since 98% of my hunting is done by myself then the answer is yes my dogs are as good and some are getting better compared to my old dogs.As I don't have anything much to compare to other then what some guys post on here on how dogs used to hunt.Do I care if my efforts are working,Are any of you guys feeding my dogs?Some of these questions sound like what a trial guy would ask about my traits and I will say again I don't trial there's none available here in Minnesota and I will never trial not interested.And again I'm still learning with every cross.If you can't find the answer to some of your questions I suggest you reread my long post the only way you learn is by trial and error with this breeding game and like I posted I still have a ways to go so if you feel your ? are not answered I can't help you. And smithbros.1 and kirconcrete if what my dogs are doing bugs you so much wait till next Dec. or Jan. and come hunt with these junk dogs and grade them in person so your questions will be answered as I don't know what it is you would like to hear.Or better yet try to get a pup and give it the 6mth test to see if it can move on to make the grade that so fits your standards.
Well now since 98% of my hunting is done by myself then the answer is yes my dogs are as good and some are getting better compared to my old dogs.As I don't have anything much to compare to other then what some guys post on here on how dogs used to hunt.Do I care if my efforts are working,Are any of you guys feeding my dogs?Some of these questions sound like what a trial guy would ask about my traits and I will say again I don't trial there's none available here in Minnesota and I will never trial not interested.And again I'm still learning with every cross.If you can't find the answer to some of your questions I suggest you reread my long post the only way you learn is by trial and error with this breeding game and like I posted I still have a ways to go so if you feel your ? are not answered I can't help you. And smithbros.1 and kirconcrete if what my dogs are doing bugs you so much wait till next Dec. or Jan. and come hunt with these junk dogs and grade them in person so your questions will be answered as I don't know what it is you would like to hear.Or better yet try to get a pup and give it the 6mth test to see if it can move on to make the grade that so fits your standards.
-
ricky murphy
rerun
when i posted this i just wanted to know of others sucesses problem etc I HAD NO AN I MEAN NO IDEAL IT WOULD LEAD TO MY BROTHER BEAGLERS FIGHTING NAME CALLING ETC i just bred 2 bitches back to there father WHO HAS SOME OF THE BEST HOUNDS IN LARGE PACK HARE IN HIS BLOOD MY SIRE FATHER WAS HIS FATHERS 31 FIELD CHAMPION MY SIRE GRANDFATHER IS RANGER DAN i just wanted to hear an learn fromOTHERS who had went down this ROAD AHEAD of me ONE DAY ILL BE ABLE TO TELL OTHERS ABOUT THIS TYPE BREEDING I THINK FOR ME AN MY DOGS ITS GOING TO PAY IN SPADES only time will tell KINDEST REGARDS R L MURPHYSMITTY1233 wrote:I have a great suggestions before we title another post "Inbreeding" why don't we go to search type in Inbreeding and read all you want on this... We have been down this run at least five times now... It leads no where but name calling and bull crap.... The greatest thing is I feed my dogs and you feed yours.... As long as you aren't trying to impose on my breeding methods then I don't get to worked up over it.... Come on now we are all beaglers, we have differing views which is natrual but to come on here and see this stuff is crazy....
Good Day
-
WELLS WOODS
- Posts: 1601
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:54 pm
- Location: Annville, Kentucky
- Contact:
Just to stir things up a bit! Gonna make brother sister cross. Mother and grandfather dead, grandmother fixed and father out west. Both dogs hunt hard, good jump dawgs, can run a rabbit. Both made champion. Male has better nose than bitch. Both started early. Male runs tighter line than bitch. knew right from the start they were gonna be good ones. Best litter i ever had! You know the feeling you get when your shooting, you know if your shot is good or bad before you pull trigger! Gotta start somewhere. Wont know if i dont try! Have bred bitch to a decent male i have now, have 2 pups from 1st litter just over a yr. now. Took forever to start, doing ok, but not as good as mother (Outcross) Second litter kept 2 pups 3mo. old now. (outcross) Only time will tell. Third litter will be from brother. Will let you know what happens, in time!
-
Ron Conroe
- Posts: 1342
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:02 am
do you want to know how to have success, you have to go thru some pups to find a good one, then you have to put alot of time on them. a beagle is a beagle. a pedigree is a piece of paper to keep people from INBREEDING. you really want to know the problem, guys are to proud to breed to someone else's dog. its a man thing.
-
SMITTY1233
- Posts: 478
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 12:52 pm
well said... Everyone already has the best dog just ask them and they will tell you.... You ever heard anyone come on this board and say I had the biggest piece of crap that ever tried to run a rabbit. I didn't think so and that is me included. We all want to be proud of the hounds we keep and run...Ron Conroe wrote: you really want to know the problem, guys are to proud to breed to someone else's dog. its a man thing.
hounds... hare.... hunter.... bang... what gets better than that.
SMITH BROS. BEAGLES
KRIS SMITH
517-881-0353
SMITH BROS. BEAGLES
KRIS SMITH
517-881-0353
-
PLATEAUBEAGLER
- Posts: 964
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:05 am
- Location: Crossville,Tennesee
I think this little bit of info from AKC on breeding maybe of some help, and is saying pretty much what everyone is tring to say here.
http://www.akc.org/enewsletter/akc_bree ... digree.cfm
http://www.akc.org/enewsletter/akc_bree ... kennel.cfm
http://www.akc.org/enewsletter/akc_bree ... digree.cfm
http://www.akc.org/enewsletter/akc_bree ... kennel.cfm
-
smithbros.1
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:45 pm
Steve, Your hounds don't bug me. I have never said you should only breed your dogs to my or others standards. I just hear about locking in traits & wondered what traits you were able to lock in. The heat cycles kinda threw me for a loop. Just want to hear about traits that make great Gundogs & if you have ben able to make them better. Take Care J
Don't worry about what people think....most don't do it often!!!
Like I said before I'm not creating this strain of dogs to better somebody else there are here to benefit me so with that said the traits I'm tryng to lock in are with the heat cycle once a year,early starting pups so that at 6mths old I know if they stay or go,nose power,15" dogs,conformation, easy handling,what other traits do you want me to list,I pretty much laid out most of my plan I CAN'T help it if what I'm doing with my dogs isn't gonna benefit you or the breed as a whole as I don't care your not sending me a monthly check for dog food last time I checked so why keep this going.I FEED MY DOGS. SO I BREED WHAT I WANT TO HUNT. I will apoligize to Ricky if I've hurt this post for him,but overall I have learned a few things here in all this mess and one thing is I don't care how anybody breeds their dogs but don't condemn inbreeding if you have not tried it,and I'm not saying that's the only way to breed .The other thing I learned is a few more guys just made it easier to figure out that there not worth wasting time explaining too,and last 1or2 of us may have a better understanding of each other so here's to you smithbros.1 as I'm moving on to better things.