Ok fellas I started this to find out what kind of first hand success people have had doing this type of cross.
Not for breeding advice.
Not to start an argument.
There are no fault free beagles in this world.. NONE.
But I have a male that does not loose rabbits, if he can run them at all and the conditiones are not so bad he can not track. He will stay after what ever rabbit he jumps untill it is in a hole or dead. And I am trying everything I can to reproduce this.
I've been doing this almost 20 years and he is the best (rabbit dog) I have ever owned. I have owned everything from Stirker dogs to Iron Mike.
I have yet to see a dog that can account for every rabbit under the gun like this mouthy joker can.
We have killed a ton of rabbits this year. We lost TWO this entire year with him on the ground. Two.
I will not feed a dog that looses rabbits on a consistant basis. After it is finished out and I will not breed to any dog that does.
Thanks for the input and I'll give it some thought.
Father daughter crosses
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
If he's THAT good I'd like to reserve one of his doubled up pups, male or female, it dont matter! Let me know if you're gonna let any out. The pup would have the opportunity to run in possibly the roughest hare country going.
It's not that life is short......it's just that we're dead for such a long, long time...
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Robert W. Mccoy Jr
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Norewester,
I am not sure if I am even going to make this cross yet.
He is a cottontail dog. He can run a hare ( he has ran two) but I am sure you have hare dogs that would do a better job on a hare than he would.
His top speed on a 1-10 is about a 6.5
If I were looking for a hare dog I would want one with a wider check area than he has.
Maybe if they were started on hare they would be good I don't know.
I don't run hare on a regular basis.
I am not sure if I am even going to make this cross yet.
He is a cottontail dog. He can run a hare ( he has ran two) but I am sure you have hare dogs that would do a better job on a hare than he would.
His top speed on a 1-10 is about a 6.5
If I were looking for a hare dog I would want one with a wider check area than he has.
Maybe if they were started on hare they would be good I don't know.
I don't run hare on a regular basis.
Robert if I had hare dogs that I KNEW did a better job I wouldnt have made the comments I did. Im as serious as a heart attack. I have a few hare bred hounds that try hard and are worth feeding but overall, contrary to most of the online reports I read, a good day of running is the exception....not the norm up here and if someone out there breeds or feeds dogs that can make the good run the norm, then I wanna feed the kind they feed. P.S. Speed is overrated and the last thing I worry about.
It's not that life is short......it's just that we're dead for such a long, long time...
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Alabama John
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MIKE POUPORE
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I think if you have exactally what you want in your kennel, I would do whatever it takes to duplicate it! I've seen your male do some amazing things over the last 2 years that some guys wouldn't believe unless they saw it with their own 2 eyes. Most dogs can't even smell a rabbit on ice let alone run it, and he does it almost every weekend. You won't ever know how that cross will turn out until you try it. You might just get the next "DAN" out of that cross or they could all be culls. It just depends on if they get the good traits of both or the faults. Mike Poupore
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buckhunter099
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- Location: Michigan
2 years?
Not to start an argument but I don't think hes owned Dan a full year yet has he?
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Robert W. Mccoy Jr
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- Location: Canton Michigan
Buckhunter (Terry),
This is the second season I've had him.
I shot a 161 rabbits over him last year and well over 200 so far this year.
But were not done yet
John,
His pedigree is listed on my web site. http://www.gunrunnersbeagles.com
I know from reading most of yours posts John that my male is no where near fast enough to run with your dogs. His top speed is a 6.5 thats stretched out.
Guys I'm not trying to drum up business or promote that mouthy Joker to any one.
I just wanted to know what kind of success poeple have had with Father daughter crosses.
This is the second season I've had him.
I shot a 161 rabbits over him last year and well over 200 so far this year.
But were not done yet
John,
His pedigree is listed on my web site. http://www.gunrunnersbeagles.com
I know from reading most of yours posts John that my male is no where near fast enough to run with your dogs. His top speed is a 6.5 thats stretched out.
Guys I'm not trying to drum up business or promote that mouthy Joker to any one.
I just wanted to know what kind of success poeple have had with Father daughter crosses.
Last edited by Robert W. Mccoy Jr on Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:52 am, edited 4 times in total.
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buckhunter099
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Robert W. Mccoy Jr
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- Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 1:57 pm
- Location: Canton Michigan
Norewester,
We have bad days also. And plenty of them.
The differance is when we have him on the ground he makes it happen.
He gets the rabbit back to the gun almost all the time. It may not be pretty and sometimes it can look down right ugly but when it counts he comes through.
Between us we have about 15 dogs and we only have one like him.
I don't have the dream pack. I have two dogs I plan on keeping through the summer. Him and one young bitch out of him. That I am desperatly trying to find another male to breed her to.
I probably go through no less than 10 dogs a year, and go to look at dozens more.
I am extremly hard to please and I keep only what I plan on breeding.
I will not keep (decent dogs) or Pack dogs. I don't have the time or the kennel space.
We have bad days also. And plenty of them.
The differance is when we have him on the ground he makes it happen.
He gets the rabbit back to the gun almost all the time. It may not be pretty and sometimes it can look down right ugly but when it counts he comes through.
Between us we have about 15 dogs and we only have one like him.
I don't have the dream pack. I have two dogs I plan on keeping through the summer. Him and one young bitch out of him. That I am desperatly trying to find another male to breed her to.
I probably go through no less than 10 dogs a year, and go to look at dozens more.
I am extremly hard to please and I keep only what I plan on breeding.
I will not keep (decent dogs) or Pack dogs. I don't have the time or the kennel space.
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JIMMIE ABSHIRE
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I have set back for about as long as i can stand it , first off half the opinions are that .People who dont have a clue are clueless . I never really ever thought people could be so blinded by opinion guess i am wrong . Why do your work at home ? Run to a breeder they will be happy to take your cash . As for me guess i will stay on my path , as for the non beleivers , my ol junie dog is a father daughter cross . Hope i get to draw some na-sayers at the world .
Old school Northway . Full Throttle no Bottle.
We have Hunted Dan for 2 Years and he is the dogthat makes it happen. I bred to him and like the pups out of him. They are only 7 Months old and have around 25- 30 Rabbits shot over them. Most of the guys that Hunt with us have been a trialer in one Registry or another, Ribbons, Trophies, Titles dont mean much to us. Not lossing rabbits to the gun is how we rate our dogs. Dan accounts for his rabbits either holed or shot and that is what we are trying to promote.
Guys I reading a lot of good things about Dan, (except he's been referred to as mouthy) but not anything about the gyp. Would this be her first litter? Does she display the same traits as Dan? You should be writing about 2 dogs that account for every rabbit jumped. This is just my opinion so please don't take offense, but it sounds like this mating is a little premature.
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Alabama John
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Robert
I see by his pedigree Dan is not a close bred hound. Personally, I would try to repeat the same cross as close as possible that produced him to get another like him rather than inbreeding.
Close breeding is not good, yes, you can get a good one once in a while, but overall and overtime, it is a deadend street. You hear mentioned every so often you have to outcross. ASK WHY? Every time you do, you have 50% your line and 50% some other line. You are then exactly back to where we are that outcross our lines initially.
The Brace Beaglers have been doing this close breeding for over 50 years that I am aware of to lock in real close track running. They have accomplished their goal. Ask them as the experts that have done it many, many times what else they got too.
Ask the local old Time Beaglers what they think? There are 50 around here to one that trials or reads these boards.
One thing that always comes out in this debate is those that do inbreed or plan to are admittedly much more:
1) Ruthless (have to cull dozens quickly when born or soon after they are running)
2) Smarter (understand the genetics and genes and their workings and get frustrated with the rest of us dummies that don't get it).
3) Rich (they can afford to feed and care for the first inbred litter of say 7 and keep all, even though admittedly these will probably not be what you want, but will be used to continue the inbreeding. These 7 have 7 pups each and now you have 49 pups to raise until they are running to see what you have. Now, you also have the original 7 (unless you have culled them) for 56 total. Now you can cull hard and hopefully get the one you are looking for.
Not very good odds.
I sure wouldn't breed to him anyway no matter how good he was if I knew he is one pup out of a litter of 7 and the other 6 had to be culled. Even worse if he is 1 out of 56 culled. Who wants those odds in their breeding program?
Smarter, and then again, maybe not!
Everyone do what they want and try what they want. The dogs belong to you, make yourself happy!!!
I see by his pedigree Dan is not a close bred hound. Personally, I would try to repeat the same cross as close as possible that produced him to get another like him rather than inbreeding.
Close breeding is not good, yes, you can get a good one once in a while, but overall and overtime, it is a deadend street. You hear mentioned every so often you have to outcross. ASK WHY? Every time you do, you have 50% your line and 50% some other line. You are then exactly back to where we are that outcross our lines initially.
The Brace Beaglers have been doing this close breeding for over 50 years that I am aware of to lock in real close track running. They have accomplished their goal. Ask them as the experts that have done it many, many times what else they got too.
Ask the local old Time Beaglers what they think? There are 50 around here to one that trials or reads these boards.
One thing that always comes out in this debate is those that do inbreed or plan to are admittedly much more:
1) Ruthless (have to cull dozens quickly when born or soon after they are running)
2) Smarter (understand the genetics and genes and their workings and get frustrated with the rest of us dummies that don't get it).
3) Rich (they can afford to feed and care for the first inbred litter of say 7 and keep all, even though admittedly these will probably not be what you want, but will be used to continue the inbreeding. These 7 have 7 pups each and now you have 49 pups to raise until they are running to see what you have. Now, you also have the original 7 (unless you have culled them) for 56 total. Now you can cull hard and hopefully get the one you are looking for.
Not very good odds.
I sure wouldn't breed to him anyway no matter how good he was if I knew he is one pup out of a litter of 7 and the other 6 had to be culled. Even worse if he is 1 out of 56 culled. Who wants those odds in their breeding program?
Smarter, and then again, maybe not!
Everyone do what they want and try what they want. The dogs belong to you, make yourself happy!!!