Feeding Raw vs Kibble

[Lusaka]

cspot--i believe the rice is cooked, it's a multi-vitamin and he boils the egg for 2min...i might be wrong, just trying to help.

I'm very interested in switching to an all raw diet for my dogs...have a few questions if you all could help me out. If you fed a raw diet to a pregnant dog how would you know if you were under/overdosing on vitamins and minerals? Anything special you would add to the diet for a pregnant dog? As far as the calcium goes...do they really get enough from the bones, yogurt & egg shell to combat all the red meat, maybe too much? Dunno myself, just inquiring. Do you feed the 2min egg every day or just a few x's a week? PLATEAUBEAGLER--do you always use chicken legs/thighs? Anyone use wheat germ oil?

Thanks for any answers!!!

[big mike 50]

I don't feed raw yet but I know one guy said he used cheese either cottage cheese or cheddar.

[mybeagles]

kybeagler,

There are too many articles by veterinary research teams that praise the health and nutritional benefits of a RAW diet. Guys that feed a Raw diet are not just a bunch of back woods rednecks that cant afford dog food, so they feed raw.....well maybe some of us are

Google a couple articles on the health benefits of Raw diet and I think you will see a different picture.....if a vet told you that, he likely sells the $50 bag "GOOD DOG FOOD" that you need to keep your pet healthy......

Mybeagles

[mybeagles]

S.R. Patch

Everything I have read states RAW diets digest faster and better than kibble to include the following articles. What are you basing your statement on?

Dog Digestion Raw Equals Shorter Digestion
Posted by Rob Mueller in BARF, Raw Dog Food

Why Shorten The Digestion Time?

One wouldn’t think that shortening the time of digestion would have such an important affect on the result of nutrient utilization, but it does. Gas is the ultimate result of improper digestion. We receive numerous calls from customers that complain about their dogs passing of noxious gas. This is the result of improper digestion of inferior ingredients that are hard to break down and pass through the body quickly. They tend to get hung up in the digestive track longer which allows for more toxins to be released. Grain based diets that take 12 to 15 hours to assimilate compared to the shorter 8 hour time frame for meat based raw diets is a significant advantage to eliminate the gas build up. The incidence of bloat is seldom a problem with raw diet dogs and becomes a real important consideration in feeding the larger breed dogs like great danes. The volume of food necessary to properly provide the right amount of nutrition to these larger breeds leads to toxin development, bloat and GI problems.

Digestion/Absorption of carbohydrates, protein and fat

The digestion and absorption of all major macro nutrients occurs before the food leaves the small intestine. Stimulated by food entering the small intestine the pancreas releases enzymes to digest the protein, fat and carbohydrate matter. At the same time bile is released from the gallbladder to aid in the digestion of the fat and fat-soluble vitamins. This is achieved by creating an emulsification, thereby allowing the water-soluble enzymes to interact with the fat. A raw diet provides fats that have not been over processed and contains a higher percentage of essential fatty acids and as a result is more easily digested and absorbed.

Increased transit time

A dry diet essentially shifts the start of digestion to the small intestine, thereby placing higher emphasis on the role of the pancreas to produce the necessary enzymes. In order for the body to absorb all of the nutrients the food must remain in the small intestine until it has sufficiently been broken down, thereby increasing the transit time.

References

*
Bradley, OC and Grahame, T. (1943) Topographical Anatomy of the Dog - 4th Edition. The MacMillan Company.
*
Budras, K, McCarthy, PH, Fricke, W, and Richter, R. (2002) Anatomy of the Dog: An Illustrated Text - 4th Edition. Schlutersche.
*
Ettinger, SJ, and Feldman, EC. (1995) Textbook of Veterinary Internal Medicine - 4th Edition/Volume 2. W.B. Saunders Company.
*
Groff, JL, and Gropper, SS. (2000) Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism - 3rd Edition. Wadsworth/Thompson Learning.
*
Hand, MS, Thatcher, CD, Remillard, RL, and Roudebush, P. (2000) Small Animal Clinical Nutrition - 4th Edition. Mark Morris Institute.
*
Simpson, JW, and Else, RW. (1991) Digestive Disease in the Dog and Cat. Blackwell Scientific Publications.
*
Tennant, BC and Hornebuckle, WE. (1989) Gastrointestinal Function. In: Clinical Biochemistry of Domestic Animals - 4th Edition. Jiro J. Kaneko. Academic Press Inc. Pg. 417-461.

Mybeagles

[kybeagler]

mybeagles,

That last post was very informative, but it still doesn't address the issues of harmful bacteria, viruses, and parasites that often contaminate raw food. How do you propose people feeding raw diets overcome these obstacles?

[mybeagles]

kybeagler,

The natural Ph in a dogs stomach is 1-2. This is very acidic and enables them to kill off the 'bad bacteria' and yet very effectively digest raw meat.

When a dog is eating kibble, the carbs and processed fat and grains change the Ph in the dogs stomach to about 5-6 very basic or neutral. If the dog didn't adapt this way if couldn't digest kibble.

Lets not forget where dogs come from.....fox, coyote, eat the nastiest stuff available. Dogs when they hunt get into awful rotten carrion. When their stomach Ph is in its natural range of 1-2 (very acidic) it can process the carrion. When they have adapted to dog food and their stomach Ph is very neutral, they cant cope nearly as well. Dogs also have the ability to detect when food is unable to be digested for what ever reason and they puke it up.

Don't take my word for it.....google some articles about it. That's where I gained my information.

Mybeagles

[kybeagler]

Fellows it dont matter to me what you feed raw or kibble. My wife is nearly a Vet in Grad School and she has been posting on this topic since she seen the topic. lol But that is her opinion in the whole thing with the Raw or Kibble.

[mybeagles]

It makes no difference to me either. Ive done more than my fair share of research, and came to my conclusions. I think that is the key for everyone. It's an interesting topic, and the amount of articles to read are endless. I'm certain a raw diet is not for everyone, but guys that really want to get into it, its kind of fun. Cant convince my dogs its no good.....

Mybeagles

[kybeagler]

[mybeagles]

My vet graduated from Michigan State University. They have a pretty well known Vet school. He raises Great Danes. He feeds raw diet. Ive met others, but thats not worth arguing.

Vets don't always use practical common sense. Some are good, some just want to make money. Some want to give 3-4 shots every year, health check up, blood tests for lymes disease when the treatment is cheaper than the test, neuter and spay every dog and cat, and on and on and on.

There are waaaaaay to many guys feeding raw, that have been for years that haven't had problems from it.

There are also many stories of dogs and cats getting poisoned from kibble.

As a Vet, do you honestly believe raw meat is bad for dogs? Scientifically speaking, how can fox and coyote survive? All my meat is human grade, wild canines eat rotton meat. I think Ill let this thread rest. Those convinced Kibble is better should feed kibble, those that think Raw is better, feed Raw. Nothing solved, Im moving on!

Mybeagles

[Bunnyblaster]

Mybeagles, the ph thing in their stomach acid.........isn't that also how deer go from processing say crops to tree bark in the winter time. I've read before that it takes a little time for their body to readjust to the changed diet so they can pull the needed nutrients out of the food they are eating. Just wondered if you knew if this was along the same lines as with the dogs.

[S.R.Patch]

Dogs don't chew as we do to break down food. They only require their food to be in manageable size to swallow as you've seen when a hound eats your rabbit.. . Fallen stock/meat is so completely digestible that the process of breaking down and absorption takes longer, the value derived from is greater and in the off season, less demand from the reserve is required.
One of the "Abominations of hounds" is..."a fat hound is a scorn to itself and the Master who feeds it" . Like feeding from the table, one must be careful to manage weight...

[S.R.Patch]

Mybeagles, the ph thing in their stomach acid.........isn't that also how deer go from processing say crops to tree bark in the winter time. I've read before that it takes a little time for their body to readjust to the changed diet so they can pull the needed nutrients out of the food they are eating. Just wondered if you knew if this was along the same lines as with the dogs.

I don't know for sure but I'm sure anyone could google it, but deer may be like cattle with their "cud". The cow"s stomach and digestion are very interesting subjects to learn.

[mybeagles]

Bunnyblaster,

Digesting meat and protien is much different that a vegetarian diet. I know very little about herbevoirs, but would not try to compare them to canines. My guess is that the process a deer goes through was naturally designed for them by their Creator. Dogs have been forced to adapt because of man's inventions. Not sure your comparing apples with apples here.

Mybeagles

[PLATEAUBEAGLER]

It's like every post on this board, one say's black and another say's white....

Feed what you prefer and forget what others thinks.

I'm outta here, have at it guy's i feed what i like and you feed what you want, to each is own.

Good luck to each.