Show Beagles qualify in Hunt Test!!

[Sundown Beagles]

Thanks Cindy for the emails, doesnt matter if sent to Donny or myself we are lucky to have jobs where we talk to each other alot. Glad to have your input, with a little luck we may have a beagle or 2 ready for 2005. Donny told me he sent a email of Wink. Its a constant battle with proveing these hounds can run with any pack or solo. Glad to have you on this board and look forward to seeing more post.

[Honey Pot Hounds]

Here is my Christmas gift to you field Beaglers.

Something we all should keep in mind whether we are breeders or judges in the ring................

http://www.terrierman.com/rosettestoruin.htm

Merry Christmas!

[TC]

A serious breeder takes the work of their dogs seriously, and a serious breeder will work their dogs at least a few times just to make sure they have the drive, the size and the temperament to actually do the job.

Thanks Cindy
I found this part of the Article that I think We should all remember if nothing Else But would change the A few times
I have my opinions as to what the AKC Show world has done to the Beagle as a breed But will keep it to myself for once!!!!
Well maybe not all of it!!
I Honestly Think that The Judges in the AKC need to start looking at the low end of the lead Not who is holding it! And actually LOOK!!!!!
Nuff Said!!!
While I am Ramblin on I would like to take the Time to THANK all those that actively Run and Show their Dogs You have given Us the inspiration That we to Can do it.........There should not and cannot be a division in the breed if it is to Survive Where would the Beagle Be today if all these folks just gave up hunting and working Their Dogs (think about it)

[Bev]

Thank you for the link, Cindy. Wow, seeing those skull transformations in such a short period of time really brings it home.

This is still my all-time favorite picture of beagles in show - the bench hounds. You can bet they were pounding in the field on Saturday, and ther owners cleaned 'em up a bit and trained them to show themselves off on Sunday. (where are the handlers with treats?)

[DRamey]

Cindy, thank you for a very informative and eye-opening subject. Ignore the foolish guests, they are the minority. I read the "Rosettes to Ruin" article. Everyone on this board should read it. It is SOBERING! I have a beagle in my kennel that is a good rabbit hound, good companion, I am very fond of him, but there is a problem. When I go to feed him, I must wear sunglasses. If not, I experience temporary blindness. He is the ugliest hound ever born! I ove him to death, but he could stand to be easier on the eyes. Guys, listen to what is being said here. These are FINE looking hounds! If proper conformation brings better performance, then we need to look closer at it. Right now the breeders of Mountain curs, Leopard Curs, Trigg hounds, various feists, etc. are breeding strictly for the best possible dog for the job. They are unconcerned about "Brand-name" registries and are commanding huge sums for hounds that will tree squirrels, bay hogs, bears, etc., stay at a tree chopping all night without being hoarse, tons of positive traits. They also have their own registries that are concerned with breeding for utility. At the same time, their dogs are very easy on the eye. We certainly don't want to become like the illustrations of the skulls in the article! But we don't want to go to either extreme. Everyone, thanks again for a very interesting and informative subject. Keep it going.

[Guest]

Why must so many beagles have cesarean sections? hummm...
Has the head been taken to the extreem, or is the pelvic to narrow...One or the other must take the blame...

That was a very good article(who wrote it)?
Gives merit to the old saying, "form follows function", there's no doubt hounds will be no better, than for what is required of them...

Makes me wonder why those who've gone wrong, feel the need to come preach to the many, who gotten along fine with keeping their hounds for their intended purpose...hummm...Oh! but sorry, that article was intended for the show breeder, wasn't it...

Again, a very good article. Time will tell if they take their medicine or spit it out...Sometime it helps if you hold your nose until swallowed ... Patch

[Guest]

Sorry, that dastardly "guest" was me.
Now what "IS" that password again...lol...Patch

[DarrinG]

Oliver got on a rabbit immediately, gave chase with good voice, and ran the
rabbit to a brush pile. The judges said they had already graded him and left
me the choice as to whether I would keep running him or not. I got the
impression they were ready to move on to the next hound, so I picked him up. Turns
out it was good enough for first place among the beagles, and he got a perfect
score of 10 on giving voice.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance as I'm not very familiar with the show dog circles, but this was a "hunt test", where they take the show hounds out to the field and they hunt, jump and run a rabbit? How long do they run? Do they only give score on voice?

[Incahoots]

I'm wondering the same as DarrinG. Doesn't sound like much is needed to win that if just runs it to the brush and it's over. Not trying to be negative but I fail to see that as any test worthy of winning.

[Honey Pot Hounds]

On the subject of changing the conformation from the field to the ring I think, but I may be wrong, that the Beagles head has been the area where the most transformation has taken place. Please correct me if I am wrong as this is only meant for discussion, but isn't the typical hunting Beagles head usually fairly "snipey"? In the ring more width of muzzle is rewarded....and it looks a heck of a lot better to me for sure. But SOME folks have taken "big heads" to a bit of an extreme and I believe this is where the problems free whelping often occur. It's the bigger headed pups usually, not the pelvis.
My bitch does not have a blocky head compared to a lot of Beagles in the ring.....she has more of a head a long the lines of Yaupon Row I have been told by Beaglers with more knoweledge of lines than myself. Her head hurt her a little in the ring under "head hunter" judges but we made it up under the "movement judges." I really like her head...it is very houndy without being snipey and she has a nice earset and long earleathers. Something I hope to hang onto in her pups.
Honey below....a show champion with a moderate head.

[TC]

Look at the Hounds In the picture Bev posted Those dogs Dont look Snippy Nosed to me!!! Do they to You?? I agree with Cindy that there are those in the show world that like the Blockier head and I can see where they would have problems Delivering naturaly The Problems I see a lot of are the Shorter Body No length of rib!!! Real SHORT BLOCKY Dogs Straight legged to a fault no anglulation ect.. Sure they look Great just standing or posing But as far as running gear they aint got it... I have seen these Champions at work in the field and most of them are taking 2 steps to the other dogs 1 well that aint gonna cut it. Add that to the lung area or no rib and they caint last 3 hrs let alone all day.. This is where I feel that the fancy or Show judges and breeders have let the breed down Breeding to just what is popular this Stud to that Bitch to achieve that Blocky Look aint doin the hounds no good.... NOW as what to do about it?????? i have said it before and will say it again We need more Field Folk to step up into the show rings bring those dogs out where they can be seen. i have offered many Times to Take a guys dog in the ring for them. The Best place i feel now this is just my opinion again Is in the UKC show ring!!! No professional handlers allowed So your just compeating against ol Joe from Down The road Heck Thats the way we like to do it a few of us get together on the weekends that there is not a trial and go to a show Sit around shoot the #### and have a good time. the UKC ismore Working Dog Oriented and the Shows are set up in A Fun family atmosphere Come on Guys/Girls Get out there and try it!!!!! Nobody is gonna change the way the dogs are viewed unless we show em....I Am not trying to Knock the AKC here either. They have A fantastic program its just got a little Outa hand..
JMHO
TC

[Bev]

TC, I don't think they look snipey, either. Look at the ample ear, ample bone mass - they don't look whippy, either. These old-time hounds look good to me. Since we're picking on breeders, I'll also pick on the field breeders who brought terrier and feist into the line to get that edge in speed. I believe that's from where the snipey noses, short ears, whippy bodies, and light-bones come. IMHO we all have a responsibility to the breed. They need to hunt and work like a beagle, but they need to look like a beagle, too. These hounds of old certainly did.

[Honey Pot Hounds]

The picture Bev posted of the three beautiful bench bitches is wonderful and I saved that one onto my screensaver. BUT, are their heads TYPICAL of what is being used to hunt today???

[S.R.Patch]

Look at the greying in their face, these were hunting bitches long before they were bench beagles. They proved their worth as hunters, and the hours/miles they ran proved their conformation was right, but they were hunters first. After all, in my book, a hound that won't hunt is just another dog.
I also like a hound with a broad full muzzle, it must hold the olfactories, but first, the hound must have the desire to use it, along with a head full of sense...
This head thing is over done. When you go to a track meet, you don't look at the athlete's head to tell if he is a great runner/jumper. And when the marathon comes towards the end, we find the conformation was close on all, but it was the size of heart/desire, that was biggest in the winners. This is what makes great hounds and seperates them from the average. This is something a judge will never tell/see on a bench. He can only go by his experience of watching hounds hunt and run for long hours. What bodies hold up and what faults cause a breakdown.
It seems silly to me to get hung up on the head, when good shoulders are so much more important. Now there, have a go at that one. Surly show beagles have well laid back shoulders and not the upright steep ones that give the hound a pounding to the joints...

[Honey Pot Hounds]

Shoulder layback is a biggie in the conformation Beagle world. After all, it is a conformation contest. Our judges, handlers and breeders want well laid back shoulders, nice angulation front and rear, adequate length of upper arm, adequate rib and proper length of loin, etc.etc. A show Beagle is judged on his movement as well as his type and beauty and any well built animal should automatically appear beautiful don't you think?
Most scars and scratches are not usually penalized in the show dog either. They are considered "honorable scars" as many of the entries are shown by owners who also work them in their chosen fields.
I hope to insert a picture of AKC's 2004 #1 15" Beagle Dog. Champion Windkist A Walk In The Park. He has reach and drive and all that good stuff in one beautiful package. Bev, how do you insert a Jpeg not on a website????