Is Progresive pack merging into Little pack

[Alabama John]

Lynn

I agree with you, but if all the dogs in a LP Trial cast run close and do not make a check for 15 seconds, how many points will any dog in the cast get?
I've had dogs in and seen casts of 5 dogs that ran a fast close track, ran it to make anyone proud and never had a 15 second check in a LP Trial and they didn't get any points and went home empty handed. Might have been the best dogs there that day.

In order for a close dog like your Buzz to get points and win a hunt, he had to have dogs in the casts he was in that created 15 second checks for him to recover and pick up taking the others to school on how its to be done.

The rules don't say you must have wild or rough overrunning 15 second check creator dogs in LP, but you won't win if someone doesn't bring 'um.

Lets just say they are necessary and thank the folks that bring them for without them there would be no trial. LP Trialers should hope there is at least one or idealy four in your next cast and you can get all the recoveries and points.

[jumpmaster]

I didnt mean to imply that all dogs in little pack are wild, I have seen many, many great lp. dogs. I have also seen many, many wild, crazy lp champs.I'm just saying you better be careful, when breeding, or buying a pup, unless thats what your after. I'm after the dog that can control the race, but do it in a controled fashion, not always run for the front at all costs. I dont have that yet, but I'm trying.

[Lynn Perkins]

LYNN
I'M WITH YOU THERE,I'VE RAN ""LITTLE PACK"" OFF AND ON SINCE" ARHA" STARTED.I RUN A HOUND NOW CALLED"" BUSTER""HE IS AT THE TOP END OF LITTLE PACK AS FAR AS SPEED GOES .BUT FEW" PP" DOGS RUN CLOSER ON THE LINE , THAN HIM, I DON;T KNOW WHO SAY'S LITTLE PACK DOGS ARE WILD,I GUESS SOME ARE.THE RUNNING GROUNDS, ALSO IS A GOOD POINT,I DON'T RUN A CUTTING SWINGING HOUND BUT I LIKE A HOUND THAT RUNS THE RABBIT WITH THE INTENTION, OF CATCHING IT.ONE THING THAT BOTHERS ME AND I HAVE TALKED TO OTHERS ABOUT IT,IS A FAST DOG RUNS OUT IN FRONT, AND THE DOGS BEHIND MAKE CHECKS AND GET SCORED BEHIND THE FAST DOG EVEN THOUGH HE HAS NOT BROKE DOWN.I DON'T THINK A DOG SHOULD BE SCORED ON A TRACK THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN RUN.I DON'T HAVE DOGS THAT FAST BUT I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!

KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES

Rufus i like'em to run as fast as their nose will let them,whether heads up or down.I with ya on NOT scoring a hound on cover track,got to get up with the dog in front as long as he or she is right.I have seen it also,watched the hank dog once at the world run 50 yds consistently in front of the pack,not breaking down much at all,when he did it only seconds.Anyway judge couldnt stay with him so they judged the pack from behind trying to run what he had already ran,needless to say he didn't win,i didn't like it but what could i have done different other then walk away talking to myself LOL

[Lynn Perkins]

Lynn

I agree with you, but if all the dogs in a LP Trial cast run close and do not make a check for 15 seconds, how many points will any dog in the cast get?
I've had dogs in and seen casts of 5 dogs that ran a fast close track, ran it to make anyone proud and never had a 15 second check in a LP Trial and they didn't get any points and went home empty handed. Might have been the best dogs there that day.

In order for a close dog like your Buzz to get points and win a hunt, he had to have dogs in the casts he was in that created 15 second checks for him to recover and pick up taking the others to school on how its to be done.

The rules don't say you must have wild or rough overrunning 15 second check creator dogs in LP, but you won't win if someone doesn't bring 'um.

Lets just say they are necessary and thank the folks that bring them for without them there would be no trial. LP Trialers should hope there is at least one or idealy four in your next cast and you can get all the recoveries and points.

John you are right,with out a ruff hound in the cast, want have much scoring,as far as checks go.That's why i keep hounds that hunt hard hoping for strike jumps,i dont like for my hounds to lose a rabbit and sure as heck dont bred for ruffness.
Like you i have seen hounds cause checks over and over,most times because they're competing for the front or wanting the rabbit to themselves,yes i do like a hound smart enough to clean it up.

Which is more impressive a hound runs in a cast for an hour,ran most the whole hour and wins with 65 pts or a hound runs in a cast for an hour,ran most the whole hour and wins with 265 pts?Me i will take either one but the one i prefer won with only 65 pts
usually one or two things happened,they pounded like they should have without few breakdowns or judges couldn't keep up enough to get it all.

Whats the first thing people think of when you tell them you run little pack??wild and crazy dogs,yep wild and crazy,i have seen those that are actually to wild to circle their on rabbit,but most i have judged i think can.
Seems when you have the most problems running and lots of checks are being created that you have 2 or more dogs getting too competative with one another and crappy running starts.Man i sure like a hound that keeps a level head whens this begins........dont you.

[Lynn Perkins]

I didnt mean to imply that all dogs in little pack are wild, I have seen many, many great lp. dogs. I have also seen many, many wild, crazy lp champs.I'm just saying you better be careful, when breeding, or buying a pup, unless thats what your after. I'm after the dog that can control the race, but do it in a controled fashion, not always run for the front at all costs. I dont have that yet, but I'm trying.

Jump i didn't think you were impling that,i have seen'em both good and bad and ones i wouldn't waste a bullet on.

If more people would breed for the gundog type hound,i feel everything else will take care of it's self,such as being successful in trials and filling the freezer.Like you i want the dog that runs under control and keeps a level head,that can bring that rabbit back around to the gun.
Don't want them slow,but i don't have to have the front either,if i'm close i'm in the money,as long as they keep their head on straight.

[JIMMIE ABSHIRE]

Go back and look at years past hoy dogs, could they win the same today ? I will say probaly not for the simple reason the dogs of yesterday
were different type hounds running under different type judges.

I also believe that dogs as well as judges have cleaned up considerably,
There will always be dishonesty thats part of it . The same dogs today that are winning seem to be able to cross over to akc type formats .

The movement has redirected itself, the swinging type hound cant seem to get it done today as well as yesterday I fill this is because of two reasons. 1.Akc lines have pretty much taken over arha. The days of grade hounds are pretty much done . Not to take anything from grade hounds but per capita they have played out. 2. Dogs of today hunt smarter and harder they will also run better controled lines. This is evident by looking at the results at trials . So maybe by thinking i believe having never been to a progressive pack type hunt that maybe the lp organization as a whole is coming up with better hounds that can get things done , i am still in believe that 1 hour per cast is not near enough time to lets say show my cards but thats the rule . Luck still plays a great part in cast 2 HOURS WAS INDEED MORE GRUELING FOR JUDGES . But the dogs at least had there chance in the sun . I also agree with lynn your dog must hunt and do it wisely, check dogs are nice but ya gotta start the rabbit in order to score it. Jmho my thoughts are mine only and not the liability of arha or nkc.

[bill (flint river )]

i wouldnt say todays hounds are better. every one here who has ben to a trial has seen a dog win that had no buisness winning, to much buddy system. or flat not a good judge and missed half the race. i also feel that breeders have breed some of the hunt out of these dogs. not all but some.to tight of line breeding, using a bitch who has not run a rabbit as a brood just for her pedigree, i could go on and on. but i feel the internet has played a huge part. it's way to easy to sell dogs or pups today then it was in the mid.90's

[JIMMIE ABSHIRE]

Bill.
I suppose my response to you would be make a trip to kentucy and hunt with us . Or even run with us we got several place for you to stay , and we will even feed ya . You judge our dogs honestly for a few days by eiether running or gunnin then before you leave , tell me i am wrong.
Open Invite-859-585-4212


Jimbo

[Lynn Perkins]

i wouldnt say todays hounds are better. every one here who has ben to a trial has seen a dog win that had no buisness winning, to much buddy system. or flat not a good judge and missed half the race. i also feel that breeders have breed some of the hunt out of these dogs. not all but some.to tight of line breeding, using a bitch who has not run a rabbit as a brood just for her pedigree, i could go on and on. but i feel the internet has played a huge part. it's way to easy to sell dogs or pups today then it was in the mid.90's

Bill,please elaborate for us.Are not better?Are you saying that linebreeding has caused problems with todays hounds?Like you i prefer not to use a brood bitch unless i have seen pups from her then i will use her.I like to linebreed if both male and females have same qualities that i like,such as HUNT,BRAINS,DESIRE,BOTTOM,etc.I think you get the picture,i will also outcross as needed but only into lines that have same qualities as my linebred hounds or if i think i need to add something i will outcross.

I have seen what i felt was buddy judging(opinion only)but on the other hand sometimes hard to beat the dog thats on(or kickin arse) and buddy judging is used as an excuse to why you didnt beat ole so and so.

Guy told me once not so long ago,sometimes its better to be lucky then good,which do you prefer?

[kybeagler]

Lynn I was reading where you posted about a hank dog running 50 yards ahead of the rest I like em as fast as possible but I was just curious to what dog that is?

[Lynn Perkins]

Lynn I was reading where you posted about a hank dog running 50 yards ahead of the rest I like em as fast as possible but I was just curious to what dog that is?

Kevin,Perkins Run-n-Gun Hammerin Hank he is a grand that i sold to Jason Tackett a couple yrs back.Don't know if you ever seen him run but he was a force to be reckoned with,i've always loved to hear him run,great mouth.

[Alabama John]

I really appreciate you big name trialers telling it like it is.

Lynn I would have loved to hear Hank down here in these open swamps after a Big wet stinky rabbit.

What is going to happen when all the dogs are running closer and not creating any 15 second checks?
Will LP change its rules, seems they will have too or cast after cast will come in with no points except for jumping the rabbit.
15 second checks will be a thing of the past.

So, I guess the answer is yes, LP dogs are getting more like close running PP dogs and will be more so in the future.

Hopefully PP will change also to allow faster close dogs to win so we can trial in both.

[JIMMIE ABSHIRE]

I really appreciate you big name trialers telling it like it is.

Lynn I would have loved to hear Hank down here in these open swamps after a Big wet stinky rabbit.

What is going to happen when all the dogs are running closer and not creating any 15 second checks?
Will LP change its rules, seems they will have too or cast after cast will come in with no points except for jumping the rabbit.
15 second checks will be a thing of the past.

So, I guess the answer is yes, LP dogs are getting more like close running PP dogs and will be more so in the future.

Hopefully PP will change also to allow faster close dogs to win so we can trial in both.

Big name trialers thats funny.

[Lynn Perkins]

I really appreciate you big name trialers telling it like it is.

Lynn I would have loved to hear Hank down here in these open swamps after a Big wet stinky rabbit.

What is going to happen when all the dogs are running closer and not creating any 15 second checks?
Will LP change its rules, seems they will have too or cast after cast will come in with no points except for jumping the rabbit.
15 second checks will be a thing of the past.

So, I guess the answer is yes, LP dogs are getting more like close running PP dogs and will be more so in the future.

Hopefully PP will change also to allow faster close dogs to win so we can trial in both.

John from the description of what you liked ,you would like hank.

I think your reading me wrong,i'm not saying LP is going to cleaner dogs,i'm saying that a little cleaner hound is starting win a little more often then in the past.The ruffer hounds still winning also.
Mine ain't saints and they don't like to get beat,but they are smart and have sence enough to come back and get the check if need to or go out and get it.

You dont have to worry,lp will always have the 15 sec checks because we don't penalize a hound for being ruff(not that we should).My opinion i dont care how ruff they get,as long as i'm not feeding the one that is being the check creator in the pack.

Basicly i just love running hounds whether you could cover them with a blanket or a baseball field tarp.

P.S. I'm not a big name trialer,i enjoy trials but don't live for them,actually i enjoy runnin & gunnin,sometimes i guess im hard to figure out or understand.it's simple come run with me sometime and you'll see what kind of hounds i'm feeding...........not an invite of challenge or anything like that.Just a friend inviting a friend to run some wabbit lol

[JIMMIE ABSHIRE]

Lynn ur are hard to figure out but pretty easy to understand The cat is in the hat