Crying Like a Baby

[chris1971]

Dang here i go again but who the hell would sue someone over a dog. I hate to say it but they are animals and all act different. Some dogs dont like nor are willing to work for some individuals. Is it the person selling the dogs fault or the person buying the dogs fault? Dont know about the word of the law on that but dang a lawsuit? Really?

[warddog]

If you don't know about the word of law then you better not be selling me something and representing it as something it is not. Folks who allow this to happen are actually enablers, meaning they enable other folks to be crooks by taking it in the back side and assuming it was their fault for getting it crammed. I will agree with GW only to the point that if I buy something, rest assured that I will be making sure that it is what I'm looking for by asking pointed questions and beings we communicate electronically now days I will have it in writting. Pretty good documentation to prove what was sold and what was bought. Now, if I don't get the answers that entice me to buy then I will elaborate until I get the best possible description the seller is willing to give. If they make a statement, I will ask them if they guarantee that. When buying something it is a matter of both parties understanding each other and trust me when I tell you that it is a contract. Nope, I'm not married to judge Judy but have worked 30 years in regulating BIG as well as small corporations where the word of law gets tested everyday. It's called "due process" and everyone is entitlted to it, both a seller and a buyer. What the process determines is if there was a violation or a breach in what was represented and or in the payment thereof. If so the process will render a decision on the remedy for making the harmed party whole. Whole meaning back to the point they were prior to entering into the contract that was breached. OH, one other thing about the process is that damages can be levied above and beyond the original exchange of monies. It's called punitive damages which comes in the form of lost time, wages and or use of the object bought or sold.
The thing is that whenever someone feels they don't get what they were told they were buying they ned to be able to prove it beyond a reasonable dought and the burden of proof is on the accusing party. When I have it in black and white there is NO wishy washy, gray matter with word interpretation or saying one thing but meaning another. I just don't understand how when folks buy big dollar items they try to get the best for their money with as much guarantee they can get but when they spend that same hard earned money for pleasure they accept less. I'd be interested to know how folks would react to this scenerio: You have been competition coon hunting for a couple of years and had seen a specific 3 year old male dog perform many times so you are well aware that his abilities suit you to the point that you'd love to own him for stud use. This dog wins the world hunt and the owner advertises him for sale as a top world champion male that is a quick strike dog and a fast stay put tree dog with a million dollar mouth. The ad also states that this dog has several litters on the ground averaging 7 pups with the same big mouth of the sire you happen to have the money and are interested. You talk to the owner and discuss that you are interested in this male to bred to, so you ask about the litters and the owner says there are 5 litters sired by him with 7 being the average in each litter. You ask the owner if the dog has had all shots and in good health. The owner states that he has been taken to his vet for annual checkups, shots wormings and all the typical stuff a reasonable person would do for a dog and that he has ALL those medical records on file. You pay the man $20,000.00 for the dog, take him home and start breeding a couple of your females which have 7 pups within three months of your $20,000.00 purchase. You are feeling real happy about it and put the dog out for public stud only to get customers contacting you saying their females didn't have any pups. After this happening for the first 10 females you bred, you take your $20,000.00 male to the vet to get checked out. What you find out at your vet is that the male has a genetic disease of testicle degeneration that causes them to shrivel up like prunes but it is a slow process that takes several years to progress to that point but the first indicater is becoming sterile. Folks this is ALL the information you have so don't ask any other questions as you've seen the dog hunt, you've found out that the dog has been vet serviced just as your new $20,000.00 new car would have and the seller advertised him exactly the way you have actuallt seen him. Would those of you who believe the buyer has more responsibility in a sale or purchase take this $20,000.00 loss with open arms? Curious if there is a difference between a $20,000.00 and $200.00 purchase.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

After reading that post its pretty black and white, I will never offer a stud or a dog for sale again. Without the proper documents releasing me of all responibilty.

[bucks better beagles]

Warddog: The only word I can think of to describe your last post is "preposterous". With all the complications you throw into a deal, I can't see how one ever gets done. A $20,000 dog?

[bucks better beagles]

The question was "Is There Too Much Trashing and Crying Going On?" The majority answer seems to be "No because it is necessary to expose a bad trade". So, trashing people by exposing them and crying because YOU made a bad purchase is the way most responders would do business. Generally, when one of you says they got treated badly, we only hear one side of the issue. Then everyone piles on with bad azz comments about what they would do to this poor miscreant and statements about a man's word. Ends up with a lament about the old days or taking somebody to court to prove who was right. Sure complicates a dog trade.

[littlewoody]

If i was going to drop 20,000 on a hound i would first take him to my vet first. Before taking anyone word.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

The question was "Is There Too Much Trashing and Crying Going On?" The majority answer seems to be "No because it is necessary to expose a bad trade". So, trashing people by exposing them and crying because YOU made a bad purchase is the way most responders would do business. Generally, when one of you says they got treated badly, we only hear one side of the issue. Then everyone piles on with bad azz comments about what they would do to this poor miscreant and statements about a man's word. Ends up with a lament about the old days or taking somebody to court to prove who was right. Sure complicates a dog trade.

Buck the prosection rest if you would like to call a witness.Most of us work hard not be mislead by anybody, young or old.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Just to clear up a few things,There was no trial. After finding out we got skinned we called and offered to sell it back for pennies on the dollars, No deal. No papers No truth. Now i aint the brightest but have sold a few. I dont sell one or have ever sold one that somebody called me back and ask to work a deal. I always got access to cash so i will make it right, i aint gonna skin even you buck! Ya know the dog was not even at her house it was in kentucky bought it at night sight unseen. Once again i trusted a fella person. I got ripped off as well as bobby. No biggie boys 1st ones on me next one aint gonna happen . Ya know years ago i spent more money on a lap dance at platinum in 30 mins. There is a moral to this story, dont buy dogs sight unseen or trust a word ANYONE Tells ya.More than likely its BS.

When the moment of truth arrives, the point of preparation has passed..........
Nothing but hard facts. Next Question?

[bucks better beagles]

I have no witnesses. The case is cut and dried. Overzealousness on behalf of the prosecution team. The world is imperfect. Men should not cry and sue at the drop of a hat when it comes to trading dogs. If you make a bad bet or bad trade, take the responsibility for it is all I am saying.

[dog]

Ive had everyone of my dogs to the vet , many times , never had them tested for " a genetic disease of testical degeneration thats causes the testicals to slowly shrivle up like prunes " but the next time they go im going to have her measure them and document the size so we have a reference . How would the previous owner know this , you said you got pups when you bred him ! dogs are living breating animals , things happen . Before you spend $20,000 on a dog take it to your vet , but im bettin they dont test for that . You can go to court and say a dog is no good and the guy you bought it from says it is a good one whos right and whos wrong , it is quite obvious to me and im sure everybody else on these boards that "good " is open for interpritation . unless that judge also judges beagles im betting your out of luck .

[bucks better beagles]

You go DOG: I like the quote about the " im sure everybody else on these boards that "good " is open for interpritation"

That is it exactly. I may tell you or you tell me that Dog A is a good dog but each of us would see that through our own eyes. Would either of us be lying? I don't think so. We would just be coming from different experience and reference points.

[chris1971]

I love a good hypothetical senerio to talk about. If I were going to pay $20,000.00 for a dog that I wanted to stud you better believe that I would have his fertility checked! Now I did not see in the senerio that the previous owner stated verbally or written that the dog was fertile at the time of the purchace only that he had pups on the ground from that dog. Now my vet would have checked him for low sperm (oligospermia) or absence of sperm (azoospermia). If this dog had testicular degeneration I would know that it can be genetic but also can be from Metal toxicity, Chemical toxicity, Exposure to heat, Hormone imbalance, Injury or trauma to testes, and a tumor to the pituitary gland. The only thing I am sure of is that there are two sides to every story and as I have always been told the truth lies somewhere in between. The law is no more than an interpretation by someone and NEVER black and white!

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Speaking of shivering balls, I drink say 18 coors light and cant take care of my ol woman that night. Could i hypothetically Sue Coors Light.Heck i may have a Lawsuit After All.Kentucky lottery Boys.

[Norshore]

Jimbo,
Prolly as good a case as the dude the bought that sterile azz coon hound.

[chris1971]

Maple Valley becareful what you write down because it could be use as a contract against you!! Here is how i see that one. Coors will probally sue you because you said you were going to have 18 so make sure to document them all!!