Why?

[peytonbeagles]

Why is it when your on a forum and the subject of breeding comes up, to mention the study of traits and genes is shot down or twisted to look like your breeding fc to fc? Drives me freakin crazy being twisted on the subject not that I know a lot on it, seems like there is no more than jockying to sale a dog, is all I can figure. I just want to do it right, and figure you have to learn about it before you can do it. And people are quick to shoot down a big name stud that has know idea how its bred or runs or anything. Just wish there were some good places to be able to talk and learn from the guys who are doing it. Sorry prob. shouldnt even post this and not directed to anyone here, just from another forum that seems like a circle jerk.

[allniter]

you will never know what will come out world ch. to world ch.-- I'M willy to bet that on the second cross of the same pair the pups aren't as good as the first mating--- we try real hard to mate the best to the best --example I have had coon dogs with all grands on both side and they never had a pup worth keeping ---and then you breed a good average dog to another dog and you will get hard hitting dogs --if some one ever figure it out --he will not to need to work again ---you can get ---size --confirmation-- color--about anything else---the only thing that you can't get on the that special dog is ---BRAINS ---

[jon cornett]

As long as beagles have been around and as long as people have been breeding them, no one has yet to breed a perfect one, and they never will. I had two females in my life that where better then most and both jump dogs, track dogs and check artists. They say you cant have it all in one dog? I had 2 ask anyone who has hunted with me about lady and molly !! They will tell you. There sire was a good one too, but neither lady or molly produced anything even close to them even when line bred.. I believe that training is as important as breeding. They say you cant teach old dogs new tricks? Ask Joe Miller and some of the other boys we hunt with about old Digger. How he was when i got him and after i had him a year. Totally different dog. Ive seen dogs that werent that great produce real good ones. Ive got a lemon male here that is producing some pretty good ones bred to different bitches, not only what ive kept but others too. Will see with future litters. Sometimes breeding is a crapshoot no matter what. My two cents worth, thats all.

[2500 HD]

[quote="allniter"]you will never know what will come out world ch. to world ch.-- I'M willy to bet that on the second cross of the same pair the pups aren't as good as the first mating---
My grand parents had 12 chidren, not a single one of my aunts or uncles act or look the same. They have similar characteristics, but are all individuals......hmmm same cross 12 times. Think about that!!!!!!!! 1 is a professor at a college and another pedals scrap steel and junk.

[Tim H]

I bet your grand parents weren't linebred or inbred and so would not be a good comparison to dogs, who are, no matter how many pups they had.

[2500 HD]

Line breeding or inbreeding was not the topic here, I just commented about a repeat breeding not duplicating the first litter. It was just an example to help realize that you can't always control the outcome of nature. Yes line breeding and inbreeding can isolate desired genes, but there are degative things that eventually come about by doing that. If your looking to add to a dog then your probally not gonna line breed or inbreed.

[peytonbeagles]

Some good points, I have not done any line breeding only studying on it, and the Brackett theory seemed to be the most proven as it says to and I believe is to linebreed you must have superior stock for foundation closley related and to never make a cross without purpose, of course he is into the german shepard but produced 90 champions in 9 years which blows my mind and wondered who is in the beagling world doing the same method with high results, people act like it is something new or taboo, but someone posted about aunts and uncles maybe should have quoted the bible and Abraham line breeding as commanded by God to which gave birth to the Jewish Nation,lol Im just trying to learn about succesful breeding and find people that know and show results is all. So far the key seems to be superior stock. And in all honesty I have a hound that Ill drop with any and not be embaressed but not what I would consider close to superior so kinda counts me out off the bat, and see some hounds being line bred That I know for fact arent great hounds, but whats the logic or key as they have some good results?

[bigdogpace]

MY FRIEND AND I R DOING THAT AS WE SPEACK BRED UNCLE TO A NEICE GOING TO C WHAT HAPPENS ALL DOGS R ABOVE AVERAGE HOUNDS DO'NT KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT OR HOW PUPS WILL TURN OUT TIME WILL TELL DONT THINK NOBODY KNOWS EXACTLY HOW SOME TIMES FIRST LITTER GOOD NEXT LITTER SORRY AS THET CAN B DEXTER REFFIT HAD GOOD LUCK WITH THIS ANS JOE SMORLISKY N MICH. HE LINE BREEDS AND DBL. LINE BREDS EVERYTHING HE HAS GOOD DOGS .AGAIN WISH I KNEW HOW TO DO IT HAD AFRIEND HAD ABROTHER AND SISTER ACCIDENT.BOTH LOADED WITH TUBRO SAID IT WAS BESTDOGS THEY EVER OWNED GO FIGURE

[peytonbeagles]

Yep, Dexter does know the genetic that's for sure, ran with him out at Greasy and can quote bloodlines from Bible to Beagles,lol Good guy and fun to talk with, and makes sence..

[mike crabtree]

Dont worry about what people think of your breedings.
Just be honest with yourself. When you make a breeding that flops dont kid yourself, just cut your losses and try again. Every cross ive made sure hasnt worked, but some of them have. Try to learn why some work and some dont, and try not to get caught up in fixing shortcomings with another dogs good points.

[Tim H]

try not to get caught up in fixing shortcomings with another dogs good points.

Could you explain what you mean by this statement. I think I know what you mean but would like to be sure I get what you're driving at here.

[mike crabtree]

What i meant was if one dog has a strong nose and the other a weak nose dont go hopeing to get a litter somewhere in the middle on nose, Foot, close or wide check work, whatever the case may be.

[old blood beagles]

Why is it when your on a forum and the subject of breeding comes up, to mention the study of traits and genes is shot down or twisted to look like your breeding fc to fc? Drives me freakin crazy being twisted on the subject not that I know a lot on it, seems like there is no more than jockying to sale a dog, is all I can figure. I just want to do it right, and figure you have to learn about it before you can do it. And people are quick to shoot down a big name stud that has know idea how its bred or runs or anything. Just wish there were some good places to be able to talk and learn from the guys who are doing it. Sorry prob. shouldnt even post this and not directed to anyone here, just from another forum that seems like a circle jerk.

Peytonbeagles, the only advise I can give you is if you do your homework and study breedings and also study the style of "running" that you like and you try to make the best cross; then that is all you can ask of yourself. If people are saying that you are only breeding to a title then ask that person to tell you about the hound? If they can't tell you about that hound then dont listen to them, they just might have an interest in another hound that just like you said "jockying to sale a dog" or better off jockying for a stud fee. If you can't tell that person about that hound then maybe you should not be breeding to it and that you only know the name as it is the flavor of the month.
It will take me a good year on studying lines and alot of long distance phone calls to not only people on the trial scene but also to gun hunters before I make my decision on a stud dog. When I finally make up my mind on the line then I will go and run with the stud, watch some of his offspring, talk to people that might have owned his sire and dam (I have went back 7 generations on some lines), and then try to watch his brothers and sisters. If you cant watch any offspring or brothers/sisters then I will come to this board ask questions and see what other people say.
To tell you about my last litter "almost 18 months ago" I breed to a non title hound. All of his brothers and sisters made FC or IFC but he was never trialed, I watched him run for the better part of the day with him being 9 years old. I liked what I watched, I liked his breeding so I paired him to my bitch and the pups are turning out to be good hounds and the only problem that I have with them is that they are late starters and this could just be my fault.
Sorry about going on so long but studying lines and crosses is a passion of mine and there are plenty of individuals on this board that have far greater knowledge than I and I hope they will also relpy to this post.
Duane

[peytonbeagles]

Why is it when your on a forum and the subject of breeding comes up, to mention the study of traits and genes is shot down or twisted to look like your breeding fc to fc? Drives me freakin crazy being twisted on the subject not that I know a lot on it, seems like there is no more than jockying to sale a dog, is all I can figure. I just want to do it right, and figure you have to learn about it before you can do it. And people are quick to shoot down a big name stud that has know idea how its bred or runs or anything. Just wish there were some good places to be able to talk and learn from the guys who are doing it. Sorry prob. shouldnt even post this and not directed to anyone here, just from another forum that seems like a circle jerk.

Peytonbeagles, the only advise I can give you is if you do your homework and study breedings and also study the style of "running" that you like and you try to make the best cross; then that is all you can ask of yourself. If people are saying that you are only breeding to a title then ask that person to tell you about the hound? If they can't tell you about that hound then dont listen to them, they just might have an interest in another hound that just like you said "jockying to sale a dog" or better off jockying for a stud fee. If you can't tell that person about that hound then maybe you should not be breeding to it and that you only know the name as it is the flavor of the month.
It will take me a good year on studying lines and alot of long distance phone calls to not only people on the trial scene but also to gun hunters before I make my decision on a stud dog. When I finally make up my mind on the line then I will go and run with the stud, watch some of his offspring, talk to people that might have owned his sire and dam (I have went back 7 generations on some lines), and then try to watch his brothers and sisters. If you cant watch any offspring or brothers/sisters then I will come to this board ask questions and see what other people say.
To tell you about my last litter "almost 18 months ago" I breed to a non title hound. All of his brothers and sisters made FC or IFC but he was never trialed, I watched him run for the better part of the day with him being 9 years old. I liked what I watched, I liked his breeding so I paired him to my bitch and the pups are turning out to be good hounds and the only problem that I have with them is that they are late starters and this could just be my fault.
Sorry about going on so long but studying lines and crosses is a passion of mine and there are plenty of individuals on this board that have far greater knowledge than I and I hope they will also relpy to this post.
Duane

That is exactly it, I enjoy the research and study as much as I do the rest, think it all goes togather, and cant see where making the odds go my way is a mistake and studying pedigree and hounds in pedigrees like you said I call people and lucky to have friends who have run and saw alot of hound and can tell upfront what they saw,helps me,but say that and some start that crap that of breeding paper or fc's,whatever to shoot down what your doing instead of reading the whole take apart of it and run. IM not doing anything that I wouldnt expect a guy that I bought from to have done.Thanx for advice all have been great