Measuring Dogs

[Laurel Mtn Kennels]

How would you feel about a rule proposal for NKC/ARHA Little Pack, measure all dogs in winners pack?

[Bev]

I voted yes, but I'd rather see all dogs measured before they go out. I'd hate to think an oversized dog was allowed to beat out another dog in the first series, just to leave a hole in the winners pack.

[Big Dog]

I would prefer a rule that required measuring all dogs, that would take the guilt factor out of having to asking to have a dog measured. Some of the dogs placing in the last couple of big hunts are oversized and some of them are not even close to 15 inches, but noone called the owner on it. If the rule is 15 then it should be 15 inch dogs, not 16 to 17 inch dogs.

Big Dog

[DarrinG]

I too have seen a few dogs that I knew without a doubt would have measured out. Everyone looking at the dog at the casting post but nobody says a word (me included). I guess nobody wants to be seen as a "trouble maker" in front of everyone at the casting poles? In the end it really didnt matter cause the oversized dog didnt win it's cast, LOL. I would like to see some measuring going on though from the get-go.

[MasonsBeagles]

Truthfully I dont care how big a dog is. If it is a rabbit dog then it should get recognition. I keep 15" and under but know of some super hounds that would definately be over. Ability is something that is not automatic in size. In Large Pack I could see where a bigger hound would really gut some dogs but in Little Pack running an hour at a time I dont see the big deal. Ive ran with and watched a world of dogs way over that would still be looking at 13" hounds backsides.

[dawgydawg67]

Who cares about the size of a dog? I guess it's just another excuse when you get beat!

[Laurel Mtn Kennels]

It would take too long to measure all the dogs. Especially at the big hunts. If you measure the final cast, eventually the big dogs will be weeded out. Why bring a dog that will be scratched in the finals? You would only have to measure up to 5 dogs per class.

I don't have a problem running with big dogs, but the rules is the rules. In the Ohio State Hunt I ran against some dogs I know pushed 16 inches with my M-80 dog. They didn't out run him.

Either remove the 15 inch rule or enforce it. I have a walker waiting in the background that will run the fur off a rabbit.

[Big Dog]

On many occassions I have drawn out against oversized dogs, I have never had a dog measured but I have thought about it, but don't want to be seen as a trouble maker. Why have a 15 inch rule if you are not going to enforce it. The people who tend to downplay the importance of abiding by the size rule are typically the ones that show up with the oversized dog trying to beat the system. Some of the dogs in the top 5 at the little world are oversized and not even close to 15. Most people know what size their dog is when they bring it so in my opinion they are ignoring the rules and looking for an advantage of some type. I like them 14.5 to 15 inches but don't keep any that are over and definitely wouldn't bring them to a trial, I can bet you if someone asks to have one of those hosses measured at a trial the owner will be all pissed off like he got screwed, and the bottom line is he knew what size the dog was and what the rule was before he loaded him up in the dog box to leave the house.
Just my two cents.

Big Dog

[Bev]

Big Dog, I think there's a lot of truth in what you're saying.

I'm not afraid to run my 14.5" dog against a 16" dog; I've done it before and probably will again. My problem with it is I believe the trials are suppose to be about promoting the best of the breed, because from that we will draw our breeding stock. That's the general idea, anyway. We shouldn't be breeding and/or promoting dogs that are outside of the breed standard. Has nothing to do with worrying about getting beat. We let an oversized dog fill a spot in the winner's pack and that cuts out a dog that fits the standard and should have been there. JMHO.

[Hilltop Kennels]

I agree with big dog. Why have rules if your not going to abide by them and make everybody abide by them. I judges for years and I would call a dog out as quick as anybody, I never did get mine called out because I would have them measured before the hunt to make sure I was legal. I had a male dog that was a very good dog in my kennel and I had one judge measure him over and then the next weekend I brought him to get him measured again because he had never measured out before so I was wondering if I got the shaft the weekend before, guess what he measured at 14.75 inches and won the hunt and eventually went on to Champion out. Just for good measure everybody knows if their dog's are close so go ahead and have them measured and not take a chance on getting to the winner's pack and getting thrown out. Maybe we should start a class over 15 and see if that go's over. Then everbody could be fair and not have to be measured out. lol

[DawgPower]

Sounds to me like you must've gotten beat by a dog that is bigger than yours, huh????

[Big Dog]

It isn't a matter of getting beat by a dog bigger than mine, it is a matter of the rule saying that 15inches or less in order to compete. Anything over 15 inches is oversized. The Spade dog that finished 3rd at the Little World is a tuffff ass dog, but he is at least 16 inches if not more. He has been measured out at least once or twice in AKC trials. I considered buying this dog before any of his last couple of owners bought him and passed him up because of his size, so I know what the deal is. He truly is a tuff dog but he is too big.(according to the rules) I have drawn out with dogs over 15 inches on 3 occassions and so far I have been 3 for 3 in beating them. I will not question a dog that is border line, but one that is blatant is another whole case. Without a standard to go by there will be total chaos, either abide by the standard or get rid of it.

Big Dog

[Blu Tick Beagler]

Measure them! I've said for years that it shouldn't be the handlers responsibility to enforce this rule. This should be done by the NKC. I've never had a dog measured and probably never will.

[Hilltop Kennels]

I think if you read my post I was the one that was doing the a_s wooping, but I AGREE with big dog again, if you do not have rules then their would be chaos. Measure them it should be up to the organization and clubs not the people running the dogs.

[DarrinG]

How many of ya`ll have stood at the casting post and everyone in your cast was staring at a 16" or bigger hound that someone walked up with....and nobody said a word, just cut your eyes at the dog and then at each other, waiting on someone else to call for a measurment on the hound? Hmm? I'm guilty of it, I'll admit it. I've ran against more than one hound that I believe everyone in the cast knew was very over-sized, (including the hound owners!) but nobody said a word, and I think so because nobody wanted to be seen as a "trouble-maker" in front of everyone there.

I also think measuring the winner's pack would eliminate this. Guys wouldn't show up with an oversized dog if they knew they would go to the final cast and then get disqualified. And it's not just about being beat by a bigger dog...heck I've been outrun by a 12 inch dog before, it's about playing by the rules.