The American Beagler Forum

I've been hearing some grumbling over the last several years about there being too many little pack champions because it's too easy to obtain the needed open win to make champion. Some say the rules should change to make it a 2 win requirement as well as the needed points to advance to the champion class. My only opinion would be maybe make it so a dog has to win a 25+ dog hunt (3 rounder) OR have 2 wins in a hunt with less than 25 dogs. I'm not knocking any dogs but I've seen some pretty lucky dogs get a win at a small hunt where there isn't any running. I guess the only saving grace is the need to have 5 wins in the champions to make grand, so if there is a dog that makes it through the opens strictly on luck it most likely won't have the luck to win 5 champion hunts to make a grand. Just looking for some thoughts.

its still hard to get that win... ive seen some really good dogs over the years that never could get it. no sure fire way to cure everything. i think if you tinker with the rules you discredit those that earned it before. 10 years ago a RCh was a super accomplishment. Today they are a dime a dozen. It is all due to more hunts, which is good. more hunts = more dogs = better competition.

I think 2 wins and they must be from different clubs , and the 2 wins you cant use toward your 100 points to champion

I agree everybody that trials much has a champion or so it seems, which kind of waters down the accomplishment a little. I wouldnt mind seeing a second win added to make champion and see how that effects the numbers I would also like to see them have to certify as they do in progressive pack by circling their own rabbit and being shot over to make champion. On the flip side to that you still have to win five times to make grand which really is finishing a dog in ARHA. So the champion class ends up with bulk of the really competitive dogs which might no be a bad thing. Leaving the open class to the younger or less trialed dogs, and the grand class to all the dogs that have accomplished the most.

.

From the few that I've been too, but just like any trial, its what the judge has seen and what kind of judge you have. All judges like different dogs and they have a different opinion on how they should run.

Harner's Hounds wrote:From the few that I've been too, but just like any trial, its what the judge has seen and what kind of judge you have. All judges like different dogs and they have a different opinion on how they should run.

This is not the way ARHA little pack works. It doesn't make any difference what type of dog the judges like, its what hound comes out on top on the score card. I have judged several hounds that I didn't like but they beat everything in their cast.

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

Dang Guess I better just DOG UP!!!!
I just Caint Seem to Get LUCKY!!!!!
Heck Some have Said if I ever WON a hunt there had better be Somebody around that Knows CPR!!!!!!

ebag33, i do believe you are on the right track. i do believe if you make a little pack hound certify you would stop a large number of champions. if you did that were would the dog run if he couldn't certify. i don't think it would be fair for him to run back in open so i guess the dog wouldn't be able to trial until he could certify. i like it. sounds like we would be bringing rabbit dogs back in the picture and correct me if i'm wrong isn't that the objective????????

I would like to see little pack go to requiring 2 wins to champ. I would also like to see a requirement put in place saying that a rabbit must actually be jumped and scored on before a dogs win can count toward champion. I have seen too many dogs get their win over the years without ever running a rabbit or even opening. Of course not all dogs champion out like that and it isn't the dogs fault, but the flaws in the rules allow this. I was at a hunt several years ago, where a dog won 3 rounds and got its win without ever jumping a rabbit or barking. To me that cheapens the title, again it isn't the dogs fault, but it is a major flaw in the rules. I was at a hunt 2 years ago where I had a dog place 2nd and she did so by never opening her mouth in the 1st two rounds, every other dog in the cast took at least 1 or more minuses in both rounds and she didn't. I appreciate her not mouthing off, but wouldn't want to call her a champion just because she didn't cold trail.

Big Dog

Big Dog wrote:I would like to see little pack go to requiring 2 wins to champ. I would also like to see a requirement put in place saying that a rabbit must actually be jumped and scored on before a dogs win can count toward champion. I have seen too many dogs get their win over the years without ever running a rabbit or even opening. Of course not all dogs champion out like that and it isn't the dogs fault, but the flaws in the rules allow this. I was at a hunt several years ago, where a dog won 3 rounds and got its win without ever jumping a rabbit or barking. To me that cheapens the title, again it isn't the dogs fault, but it is a major flaw in the rules. I was at a hunt 2 years ago where I had a dog place 2nd and she did so by never opening her mouth in the 1st two rounds, every other dog in the cast took at least 1 or more minuses in both rounds and she didn't. I appreciate her not mouthing off, but wouldn't want to call her a champion just because she didn't cold trail.

Big Dog

Amen Brother.

NKC put lp certification to a vote a few years back and it was voted down. That would thin down the champions for shure and make for some good races!
If a dog can't jump and circle its own rabbit then be shot over how can you call it a champion?

I don't trial much but would like to do more. I don't have any champions just a couple places. I think it would better the breed if you made the criteria a little steeper.. The two wins if less than 25 dogs i like. I check out the results often on the arha site and I am amazed at how many hunts have less than 20 entries. Some only have ten!!!!! I am sure you like you chances against ten than say 25 or more. Heck all you have to do to qualify for the world is finish in the top five in one of those hunts. I do like the idea of certifying also. That may eliminate some of the big time swingers and check creating dogs out there that wins but can't run one on there own. But some also say that beagles are meant to be run in packs so why certify them. I think all of this may cut back on the amount of dogs entered in hunts and I am not sure that is what the sport needs right now.

To me the biggest reason more dogs are finishing is the fact that more dogs are being bred for that specific format. Guys breed for what they trial and the better a dog suits a format the easier it will finish.

But i would have to say ok they got lucky and championed out .they will still have to meet up with a deserving hound sometime the truth will come out .