The American Beagler Forum

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I think they should take the top 25 hounds out of each class for the HOY runoff, but that is just my 2 cents....

runnemhard wrote:Is it time to look seriously at tyhe current HOY format in ARHA Little Pack? Is the true HOY being awarded? Are owners buying HOY? Just a few questions...

amen,it is about time someone brought this up,look at the open class,yeah,maybe i am tootin my dogs own horn,but,my hound,jessies blue turbo was entered in two hunts this year as an open,the world hunt where he placed 2nd,and the lil world where he placed 5th,those are the two biggest hunts in the orginization,he amounted 493.2 points,i think it is safe to say,no other dog has ever done that,but by the way it looks,he will prolly finish 4th behind max,who was supose to be inneligable for the hoy,but suddenly is,birdie,who has been drug all over the country here lately by my buddy scott kerns,yeah,she finished 3rd at the world,but who beat her?that is right,jessie,and two minusses cost him the world,and a minus cost him the lil world,then ya got streak,brian is my buddy,just like tony,and scott,but i am sorry,i do not agree with people addin hunts in their area at the end of the year to win it,sure,brian may not have been the one that added them,but the guy who did add the huints to generate points to win the grands hoy has drug streak everywhere and of course streak placed top five at every one.

i am not tryin to cause a fight,but,take out the club hunt points,then,who is your hoy?

how is it fair to the other guys who cannot add hunts at their convinience to generate points?

and how is packin a trailor full of dog to a hunt,signin them up,then scratchin them promoting the best hound?

all this stuff has went on,all i have to say is this,take away the minus at the lil world and there would not be a race in the opens,and yes,the minus was very weak,i dont care who i pizz off on that call,not to mention the check took off cause one of the judges felt there was not enough ,ine established on a rabbit we jumped and saw and all three dogs ran 100 yrds,then jessie hit a check after 30 second breakdown.plus,we lost three minutes over a minus no one would claim at the start of the cast,then had to catch the dogs off a red hot rabbit at the end,two seconds more and lynn perkins retta dog would have prolly nipped us in the rear and went to the finals.

yeah that is a bunch of what if's,but,a lot of stuff effected the open race at a crutial time,when i signed the scorecard at the lil world,i knew max was goin to go ahead of me in points,but,i was also under the impression that he was inneligable,just like the rest of the orginization,i was already locked in the runnoff without the 5th at the lil world,if i had it to do again,i would have scratched jessie,and held him back as an open for a chance to win the north american or the spring nats as an open,but i figured,as of the way the hunt squedule was at the lil world,and max suposively at the time,inneligable,i figured,at the most,birdie would pass me,and jessie would at least get reserve,but no,nkc decides to let max be elligable,and then someone adds a bunch of hunts out west and now,he wont get squat.

like i told joyce at nkc,keep the money,the trophy and dog food,all i want is the hof points,take out the dog that was suppose to be inneligable,the club hunts out west that was added,jessie would be your reserve.

o well,i should have just shut up minutes ago,but,we will see who the real hoy is in march at the runnoff!!!!!!!!!

do away with the club hunts and award it to the dogs that can get it done at the big ones.

Who added hunts? and how can you do that?

WELL I DONT AGREE WITH DOING AWAY WITH CLUB HUNTS BECAUSE ALOT OF PEOPLE CANT AFFORD TO GO AROUND THE COUNTRY TO ALL 5 AND THE STATE HUNTS. ESPECIALLY WITH THE PRICE OF GAS AND LODGING. KEEP THE CLUB HUNT AND LET THE LITTLE GUY HAVE A CHANCE AT IT.

My vote is to just count state & big five hunts for hoy points. If we did that this year, Jasper would have won the grands hands down. Instead, it is a tight race that has come down to the wire. Regardless of how the race finishes, I am very proud of what my dog has accomplished during this year. He'll be going into the Hall of Fame this year regardless of how it shakes out.

As for Streak, he has got two sevenths and an eighth at the three club hunts I hauled him to in November. Ask Buddy Wall, Joe Phillips and some judge from Neelyville if they even had a clue whose dog it was, let alone have a clue that this dog was close to the top in the hound of the year when Streak placed second in those first round casts. Call Harold Pillar and ask him if his dog deserved her win over Streak in the finals at Blue Eye this last weekend. He'll tell you that she sure did. Joe Phillips judged Streak in the finals at the Arkansas State and thought it was Denver Riddle's dog. So don't make acquisations Danny, pick up the phone and call the guys I have previously mentioned, they will set you straight. By the way, I believe Streak placed at the world and Little world also, not as high as you, but that is still a great achievement.

As for scheduling hunts, everybody out "west" will now be calling Danny Van Sickle before scheduling anything. Upon his approval, they will then contact Joyce.

danny vansickle wrote:

runnemhard wrote:Is it time to look seriously at tyhe current HOY format in ARHA Little Pack? Is the true HOY being awarded? Are owners buying HOY? Just a few questions...

amen,it is about time someone brought this up,look at the open class,yeah,maybe i am tootin my dogs own horn,but,my hound,jessies blue turbo was entered in two hunts this year as an open,the world hunt where he placed 2nd,and the lil world where he placed 5th,those are the two biggest hunts in the orginization,he amounted 493.2 points,i think it is safe to say,no other dog has ever done that,but by the way it looks,he will prolly finish 4th behind max,who was supose to be inneligable for the hoy,but suddenly is,birdie,who has been drug all over the country here lately by my buddy scott kerns,yeah,she finished 3rd at the world,but who beat her?that is right,jessie,and two minusses cost him the world,and a minus cost him the lil world,then ya got streak,brian is my buddy,just like tony,and scott,but i am sorry,i do not agree with people addin hunts in their area at the end of the year to win it,sure,brian may not have been the one that added them,but the guy who did add the huints to generate points to win the grands hoy has drug streak everywhere and of course streak placed top five at every one.

i am not tryin to cause a fight,but,take out the club hunt points,then,who is your hoy?

how is it fair to the other guys who cannot add hunts at their convinience to generate points?

and how is packin a trailor full of dog to a hunt,signin them up,then scratchin them promoting the best hound?

all this stuff has went on,all i have to say is this,take away the minus at the lil world and there would not be a race in the opens,and yes,the minus was very weak,i dont care who i pizz off on that call,not to mention the check took off cause one of the judges felt there was not enough ,ine established on a rabbit we jumped and saw and all three dogs ran 100 yrds,then jessie hit a check after 30 second breakdown.plus,we lost three minutes over a minus no one would claim at the start of the cast,then had to catch the dogs off a red hot rabbit at the end,two seconds more and lynn perkins retta dog would have prolly nipped us in the rear and went to the finals.

yeah that is a bunch of what if's,but,a lot of stuff effected the open race at a crutial time,when i signed the scorecard at the lil world,i knew max was goin to go ahead of me in points,but,i was also under the impression that he was inneligable,just like the rest of the orginization,i was already locked in the runnoff without the 5th at the lil world,if i had it to do again,i would have scratched jessie,and held him back as an open for a chance to win the north american or the spring nats as an open,but i figured,as of the way the hunt squedule was at the lil world,and max suposively at the time,inneligable,i figured,at the most,birdie would pass me,and jessie would at least get reserve,but no,nkc decides to let max be elligable,and then someone adds a bunch of hunts out west and now,he wont get squat.

like i told joyce at nkc,keep the money,the trophy and dog food,all i want is the hof points,take out the dog that was suppose to be inneligable,the club hunts out west that was added,jessie would be your reserve.

o well,i should have just shut up minutes ago,but,we will see who the real hoy is in march at the runnoff!!!!!!!!!

do away with the club hunts and award it to the dogs that can get it done at the big ones.

hey vansickle enough already, yesterday's rain mixed with all your tears is gonna flood the state...



matt

danny vansickle wrote:yeah,maybe i am tootin my dogs own horn,but,my hound,jessies blue turbo was entered in two hunts this year as an open,the world hunt where he placed 2nd,and the lil world where he placed 5th,those are the two biggest hunts in the orginization,he amounted 493.2 points,i think it is safe to say,no other dog has ever done that,

Ever hear of a dog named Swartz's Little Time, Danny?

She won H.o.Y. like no other in 95, went out and won the North American to qualify for the world. After that she went on to win the World and another Big 5 hunt that fall ( I believe it was the Little World ). That is something as far as I know was never repeated and the way you win H.o.Y. in dominating fashion......

I tried to run for H.o.Y. one year, hung in the the top 15 all spring and finally got so burned out on it that I gave up ( my goal was to make the run-offs ). My hat is off to the guys that actually go through with it, it's not for everybody....

Personally, I don't see the organization doing anything with it to end it as it brings alot of extra money in because of the extra amount of dogs that end up getting entered in hunts to bump the #'s up. That's my 2 cents....

Collins Country wrote:WELL I DONT AGREE WITH DOING AWAY WITH CLUB HUNTS BECAUSE ALOT OF PEOPLE CANT AFFORD TO GO AROUND THE COUNTRY TO ALL 5 AND THE STATE HUNTS. ESPECIALLY WITH THE PRICE OF GAS AND LODGING. KEEP THE CLUB HUNT AND LET THE LITTLE GUY HAVE A CHANCE AT IT.

Thats what i say robert


JAMIE,

give it based on placement not by how many dogs are entered in the hunt. if you give 10 points for 1st at club and so forth, 20 for state 1st and so forth, 30 for 1st at big 5 hunts 40 for world 1st. If you take out the points from small clubs then no one will show up to hunt then the small club suffers. This will take out the prospect for people entering dogs then scraching then, and I have seen some great dogs out there that the small guy can't afford to put in the big hunts that can flat out run a rabbit, but will never get the reconigition of placeing in the big hunts. I know I own one.

i knew i should have kept my mouth shut,but,o well,and tony,you have a fine hound,hell,your hole kennel is one of the most impressive out there,and i was not singling any one person out for haulin a truckload of dogs around,it has been goin on everywhere,not just out west,and i aint tryin to badmouth anyone or their dogs,all i am sayin is this,haulin a bunch of hounds around to generate points is manipulating the hoy race,anyone that does not agree is crazy,i watched it go on two years ago worse than ever,if they would do away with the club hunts,that will not happen,and i understand some people cant afford to hit all the big hunt,but to win the hoy or even place in the top 10 by hitting just club hunts will cost ya a heck of a lot more than just hittin the big ones,that is simple mathematics.

if i stepped on anyones toes,well i am sorry,but i will say this,take a good look at junie,the dog won the two biggets hunts we have,the world and the lil world,but more than likely,he wont even place reserve.

just got off the phone with passmore,i would like to know where i said streak placed 2nd at a bunch of hunts he was hauled to?it was not said,so dont stick words in my mouth

we talked for an hour about the hoy and things that have went on,we agree,take the club hunts out then you have jessie first,and streak 2nd,as for max,i have the upmost respect for tony upton,always have,so anyone sayin i am badmouthin him or max is wrond,but like brian and i talked about,he said del morgan stood up at the last rules meeating and said any dog that has won the hoy twice is not eligable,effective immediatly,every club is to have a rep present,i asked joyce before the lil world if max was eligable,she said,from what she understood,he was not,tony told me himself,earlier in the year when i asked him why he was not runnin max,he said,they changed the rule to make it so he could not win the hoy,so he had no reason to run him,but suddenly,now he is eligable,so be it,max is one of the best dogs i have ever seen,i am not tryin to take anything away from any dogs.

all i am sayin is this,i watched the most rediculous rule manipulation go on in 05 in the hoy race,,enough to disgust any houndsmen,and haulin dogs around to scratch them is just the same,but,it has been goin on ewverywhere.

if ya count only the big 5 and state hunts,then you would have your true hoy in every class,jmho.

call it whinin or what ever,so be it,i call the things goin on unethical,but it is not just one person doin it,get rid of the club hunts and then it would not happen.

that is my last post on this matter,knock yourselves out,but if ya really sit back and think like houndsmen,you would agree,just like brian and i both said on the phone,it is about ethics.

no way is perfect. i think based off of the total dogs is fine. a 10 dog club hunt should never count the same as a 200 dog hunt. Little Pack should consider letting a hound finish out the trialing year in whatever class they start. But some wouldnt like that either.

Who gives a crap who the HOY is. Go out and run your dogs with your buddies and save your HOY trial money for beer. My hound of the year is always one of my dogs, cause they are the ones I hunt with.

Points should count the same and give incentive points for big hunts. But if you scratch a dog you should get points taken away (unless it is an obvious medical reason). The only reason I say that is there are a few that want to keep a dog in a certain class when it should have advanced a long time ago. The majority of us who take a dog to a hunt are there to have fun at a sport we love not just to get to their final cast and then scratch. The points should without a doubt be redone somehow.



Thank you,
Mike Whitis