who promotes the best all around RABBIT DAWG?????

[Beagleman63]

by wildhare2 on Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:48 pm

Did they place?
If you are talking about Wurtland, none of the dogs that placed were gone for more than 15 to 20 mins. The few dogs that didn't go on the deer chase couldn't keep a rabbit going from what the judges said.

Your not really serious are you Justin??? I also heard a judge say that it was going to be easy to make the cut after over half the dogs entered took off on a deer chase. But obviously that didn't happen. I believe there were 31 big males at this trial. and 19 of them took deer, including your Field Champion, leaving not a few as you stated, but twelve that were running rabbit and not deer. The dogs that were left could run a rabbit. Don't forget, I was there to. Every dog that placed ran deer, and most for longer than 20 minutes, including yours. Trials like these are what discourages people from going to any trials at all. The dogs that were being returned by truck were dropped off on the other side off the hill (not quite a mountain) and not even returned to the original pack that WERE running rabbit. Eventually they did get back together. Have I ever had a dog take a deer? Sure have, and at a trial once to. Why the judges even picked him up for it! But I work hard at keeping them broken, and to have someone come on here and say that the dogs that wouldn't take a deer couldn't run a rabbit either is just a plain and simple insult. I am not in any way shape or form a sore looser, and you know that, but lets call a spade a spade. I have handled your dog at a trial for you, and seen him run on several occasions. I like the dog, but on this day, and at this trial, he took a deer along with 18 other dogs not 5 minutes off the lead at the very start of the trial. Did he start it? Maybe not, but he went. Plain and simple. I've listened to you blame this race on other dogs, and now this. Your dog ran a deer. No big deal. Work on it, and maybe next time they'll be thirteen dogs that don't have to be chased down. I believe a dog is deer broken when it will turn down a pack of dogs running one and continue to run rabbits, but sometimes these things happen, even to Field Champions. JMHO

[Jeremy Mapes]

I like ukc hound and hunter. It promotes a jump dog first, and your not allowed to run any trash. If it's not a rabbit your scratched. Those in my opinion are the two most important traits, after that should come line control and speed. Ukc does reward a dog with good foot, but he has to have the line between those feet, Ukc doesn't let the hounds run rough swinging and skirting and rewards a check hound for picking up those tough checks. I say tough checks because they have to be broke down for at least a minute before your considered in a check. I think all the formats promote good things it's just based on what the individual likes. After all, if we all liked the same style dog we wouldn't have so many different formats out there. Can't say much about the pp trails, I haven't yet attended one.

[TC]

Ukc doesn't let the hounds run rough swinging and skirting

Since when?? I have NEVER seen a hound scratched in UKC H&H for rough running Seen a lot that should have been but have never seen it done..
My other problem with the H&H format is it Does NOT promote a hard hunting dog..
I have seen more than one dog Win By hanging back letting others do the work and as soon as the rabbit is up again GRAB the front at all costs therfore getting First line...AFTER the other hounds have Done All the work...Seen lots of HBCH get theres by hanging around 25 to 30 yards from the point of loss just looking around then when that grubbin hound picks it back up CUT in front of it to get the score...just Cause it is the first to cross the line Dont mean it was gettin anything done..oh And Donr even get me started on Holes!!!! A loss is a loss unless that Dog has his head stuck in the hole!! I Still Enjoy going to the hunts just dont count on the best dog winning!!! But then again thats in any Format....
thats Why I like UKC performance pack

[Jeremy Mapes]

There will never be a set of rules that would allow the best dog to win every time. There's always gonna be a loophole and there will always be someone looking for the loophole. By rules a rough running dog should be warned if it the rough running continues then he should be picked up. A first line dog can win without hunting but for that to happen you'd have to three line every rabbit which doesn't happen often and to score a line he'd have to be on the line not running rough. I've been in alot of cast where the best dog doesn't win, hell I've even won when I shouldn't have but that's just the way it goes sometimes. A good dog will take you a long way but sometimes you gotta be lucky to.

[houndsound]

Ukc doesn't let the hounds run rough swinging and skirting

Since when?? I have NEVER seen a hound scratched in UKC H&H for rough running Seen a lot that should have been but have never seen it done..
My other problem with the H&H format is it Does NOT promote a hard hunting dog..
I have seen more than one dog Win By hanging back letting others do the work and as soon as the rabbit is up again GRAB the front at all costs therfore getting First line...AFTER the other hounds have Done All the work...Seen lots of HBCH get theres by hanging around 25 to 30 yards from the point of loss just looking around then when that grubbin hound picks it back up CUT in front of it to get the score...just Cause it is the first to cross the line Dont mean it was gettin anything done..oh And Donr even get me started on Holes!!!! A loss is a loss unless that Dog has his head stuck in the hole!! I Still Enjoy going to the hunts just dont count on the best dog winning!!! But then again thats in any Format....
thats Why I like UKC performance pack

I agree and disagree with you. The rules and the format specificaly say rough running / swinging and skirting are not allowed. But, you're right often this isn't enforced. But the way to correct that is pick up a score card and be the judge and enforce the rules! As far as a faster dog winning, on some days I think they will have an advantage, but on some days they won't. If they're sitting around waiting for another dog to get a check, they'll be dropping in points every time that happens as a dog that recovers the check will get a 20 point advantage every time. That in addition to the fact that strike points are worth more then speed and drive points in UKC H&H evens it up pretty much for both styles of dogs. If I went to a UKC H&H hunt on a perfect running day where lots of lines would be scored, I'd want a dog that would fly.... If I went on a day when the running and jumping was tougher, I'd want a little slower better minded jump dog.... but a good old fashion rabbit dog on any style should have a chance on either day I think. But I agree there are to many times when the best dogs haven't won, and yes that will always happen at times in any format, but in UKC H&H I think if the rules were correctly applied it'd be about perfect. JMHO

dk

[HLC_Kennel]

Progressive Pack dogs are so fun to watch and my favorite Progressive Pack hound has to be TC's Blue Runner dog. Nice dog with a nice voice.

[thornie]

I can't support an associtation, that promotes dogs running offgame or you have to jump a rabbit. I have hunted in all the formats and I hunt my dogs in the formats that I think they fit the best in. We all know what we are looking for, but we are influenced by the thrill of competion, meeting new friends or by not having a club close to you that has the format for the type of hound your hunting. I prefer to hunt ARHA PP and UKC PP, thats where my dogs fit in.

[jdmart]

Thornie,

The association does not support running off game. The AKC rule book says running deer is a demerit. How much you demerit is up to the descretion of the judges. These dogs are bred to run, fast and hard, if one dog starts a deer race, some are going to follow. Especially in the big male class the agression of the pack running off game is too tempting for some. I'll also bet when the pack leaves some dogs won't know it is off game for 200-300 yards when it is a large pack trial. Not like it is 5-7 dogs in the pack. You can criticize the last line if you like but its is just large pack style.
I will agree PP has a fine rabbit hound but as you can see the MidWest guys just like a faster hound. I run MidWest but stick to the 13" females, more controlled for the most part. I do respect those guys with the patience for the big males though. Too each his own, a good respect for a true rabbit hound should be what it is all about not one association or format against the other.

Jeff

[HLC_Kennel]

I really would like to get in a AKC Large Pack, from what I heard from a friend, thats where the true in shape hounds are. They run lots of dogs for a long time. Any dog that isn't in shape will not be able to stay with the pack. They will leave him in the dust.

[wildcatfan0309]

I really would like to get in a AKC Large Pack, from what I heard from a friend, thats where the true in shape hounds are. They run lots of dogs for a long time. Any dog that isn't in shape will not be able to stay with the pack. They will leave him in the dust.

its a joke on cotton tail anyway i heard on hare is a whole different story though

[danny vansickle]

hey josh,why dont you try goin to a few hunts before making your mind up on akc,you have went to one hunt and now your bashin the orginization like this,maybe the one you went to had bad running that day,bad conditions,maybe the dog you ran that day wasn't what akc promotes i don't know,but it isn't right to bash akc when you haven't really ran it enough to be a critic,not tryin to start anything,just making a suggestion.........

there are a lot of midwest trials coming up around you,hit a couple,maybe you will have a different opinion............

[wildcatfan0309]

hey josh,why dont you try goin to a few hunts before making your mind up on akc,you have went to one hunt and now your bashin the orginization like this,maybe the one you went to had bad running that day,bad conditions,maybe the dog you ran that day wasn't what akc promotes i don't know,but it isn't right to bash akc when you haven't really ran it enough to be a critic,not tryin to start anything,just making a suggestion.........

there are a lot of midwest trials coming up around you,hit a couple,maybe you will have a different opinion............

ahh id rather not go and just bash it

[danny vansickle]

hey josh,why dont you try goin to a few hunts before making your mind up on akc,you have went to one hunt and now your bashin the orginization like this,maybe the one you went to had bad running that day,bad conditions,maybe the dog you ran that day wasn't what akc promotes i don't know,but it isn't right to bash akc when you haven't really ran it enough to be a critic,not tryin to start anything,just making a suggestion.........

there are a lot of midwest trials coming up around you,hit a couple,maybe you will have a different opinion............

ahh id rather not go and just bash it

[modock kennels]

i generally go to whatever trail is closest to home, no matter arha or akc, i like em all, whichever is closer, save on fuel

[wildcatfan0309]

hey josh,why dont you try goin to a few hunts before making your mind up on akc,you have went to one hunt and now your bashin the orginization like this,maybe the one you went to had bad running that day,bad conditions,maybe the dog you ran that day wasn't what akc promotes i don't know,but it isn't right to bash akc when you haven't really ran it enough to be a critic,not tryin to start anything,just making a suggestion.........

there are a lot of midwest trials coming up around you,hit a couple,maybe you will have a different opinion............

ahh id rather not go and just bash it

its just the large pack on cottontail that i wouldnt like
the midwest would probally be ok
just not for me