LP VS PP

[Joeyman]

THE LP trials I've attended in the midwest noone has ever jumped a rabbit for the dogs. We let the dogs go and just stand and wait till the dogs jump one. And when one is up they run it pretty good. I went to a trail once where one of the dogs caught one. First Time I ever seen one get caught or ran down. I had to see it for myself the rabbit was laying there dead looked a little stiff like it was locked up. Pretty impressive if you ask me.

But I've only been to a few trials so......

[Triple_S]

You know and I know many times the best rabbit dogs there go home early .

i am with you 110% on this one.

i just have open class dogs. so i get the chance to go out an watch the champs or grands run.
i think its better running, less checks and a smoother race its more of a PP type run, (from my perspective.)
But thats just what i like.
i dont like alot of stop and go. but on any given day your going to have some .
i guess my bottom line is
Get'em up ,sing out loud, bring'em to papa and don't be all day about it .

i'm going for Extream Hunt , Very good line controle and somewhere between a 6 and 8 on speed with brain's enough to slow down went senting is not so good. this is what i want. and this is what i will have..
not sure how long it's going to take to get there. but i will get there one day.

[JCM]

I have run LP for a long time, and I am continually impressed with the improvement in dogs since I began. Anyone that seems to think that LP dogs are hit and miss should come to a few hunts and help judge. Once you look at your breakfast in the weeds a few times, while you are gasping trying to keep up, you will realize maybe you spoke too soon.

And for those that say LP is just rough, swinging dogs, come to the World Hunt and stay for the last two rounds. I can assure you that you will see some fine rabbit hounds that you would be thrilled to own. The hit and miss dogs are mostly gone, and the dogs that are left can flat smoke a rabbit.

The Progressive Pack hunts that I attended only had about 18 - 22 dogs, from about 7 or 8 handlers. The level of competition was discouraging. If you look at the hunt results from clubs that run both LP and PP, like Ashland, KY, compare the number of entries. LP usually has at least 3 times as many dogs.

From my experience, those that slam LP are people who tried to compete and took their dogs to another format, because they got beat. Once they find success somewhere else, then they slam LP.

[hounddog]

I have run LP for a long time, and I am continually impressed with the improvement in dogs since I began. Anyone that seems to think that LP dogs are hit and miss should come to a few hunts and help judge. Once you look at your breakfast in the weeds a few times, while you are gasping trying to keep up, you will realize maybe you spoke too soon.

And for those that say LP is just rough, swinging dogs, come to the World Hunt and stay for the last two rounds. I can assure you that you will see some fine rabbit hounds that you would be thrilled to own. The hit and miss dogs are mostly gone, and the dogs that are left can flat smoke a rabbit.

The Progressive Pack hunts that I attended only had about 18 - 22 dogs, from about 7 or 8 handlers. The level of competition was discouraging. If you look at the hunt results from clubs that run both LP and PP, like Ashland, KY, compare the number of entries. LP usually has at least 3 times as many dogs.

From my experience, those that slam LP are people who tried to compete and took their dogs to another format, because they got beat. Once they find success somewhere else, then they slam LP.

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

[jdwiley]

I have only ever attended P.P trials. But I would say that you're gonna find rabbit hounds in any format(Almost). I see plenty of results on here to prove it during rabbit season,LOL! I know I like my running smooth, I dont care how the hound is bred or trialed. If you want to see the difference, attend a trial!
As for the number of entries at the trials, I agree. When I see the numbers that L.P. puts up, it amazes me.Dont know how them club hunts get pulled off like they do! Some club hunts pull in as much as one of the big 6 hunts in P.P. I'm a little jealous but L.P. is more popular and been around a little longer.
Maybe I'll take one of my slow ol plugs to a L.P. trial. They'll catch up to the pack just in time to get a 15 sec.check

[LIVE WIRE KENNELS]

i'm not being a smart @$$,i am asking an honest question.......is pp dogs slower type dogs than lp?i like fast dogs that run to catch,hunt like #e!!,don't break down much,and when they do grab it back up the quicker the better.I remember back when we'd come back from winners pack (mid-west)and guys would run up and say"how many did ya'll catch"that's not a question asked any more.

[Triple_S]

From your post i would say you would like LP better.
PP is more of a line dog . and to awnser your question... .. most are but some are not.
your run to catch dogs do run little pack.
so there ya have it in a nutshell.
you should go see them both with your own eyes, then you will know format what suits you.
i hope this helped ya out.

[Alabama John]

J D Wiley Good point. Fast footed or fast covering the track distance not counting the swinging out distances, you'll do just as good. Some checks are shorter than 15 seconds, but also some are a lot longer too. Never been to a PP trial, but assure you I run as fast a dog as anyone on here but pretty close on the track for fast dogs unless its after a BIG Canecutter then maybe 4-5 wide. A fast dog runs a far easier rabbit than slow dogs anyway as it doesn't have time to double back or pull those tricks, its running for its life. A lot don't make it.

Let me make a point since what I said seems to bother some on here, even though I told the truth. Go to a LP trial and go out on the cast , everyone is welcome and a sure fine bunch to be around, most come to visit anyway. and many don't bring a dog, just watch and listen to the dogs.


To prove my point, I need the answer to these questions:

(Please break the final two casts points down per dog and total for each cast. How many jump points and how many check points.)

1) At the World trials, in the last 2 casts, how long did it take to jump a rabbit? How many were jumped in each cast?

2) How long of total time did the final two casts each actually spend running?

3) how many points did each dog in each of the final two casts return with?

Not picking on anyone's particular dog, just want to make a point by using actual LP top dpg casts as example for readers on here to think about. good or bad.

"Will anyone truthfully answer or will this be ignored as you can see where I'm going with this."

[Triple_S]

Yeah...
lets beat this dead horse some more.

[LIVE WIRE KENNELS]

how is pp's checking system?is it also 15 sec?i don't raise swinging type dogs,i've had a few,only to get rid of them upon discovery.it's not what i like.i like the dog to lock down on the track and hammer,when it loses the track,SNAP back,grab it,and continue trying to eat that bunny.i've only went to one lp trial,i didn't really get to see alot,but i did observe the one hour cast rule and the 15 sec. rule.total running of the last pack consisted of 3 minutes at the most of running.it was the very last few minutes of the winners pack,they had trouble finding a rabbit,then finally jumped one,about the time they started sounding pretty good,"FIELD TRIAL" was called and the dogs were picked up.i asked about why they did it and how you are able to judge a pack with that kinda running,and one of the guys that kinda was showing me the ropes said it was the rules and sometimes it worked out like that,and he was glad he wasn't judging.i will say that the guys at that trial were very hospitable and quick to answer any questions i had.

[Triple_S]

1. Definition: A check occurs when it is evident that there is a breakdown in the forward progress of the chase. The hounds do not have to cease barking in the check area, for it to be considered a check. (See rule IX.F.6. Note: concerning hounds barking in the check area.) If it is evident that no hound is making forward progress on the line, then a check has occurred. A hound must claim the check, by giving mouth and making forward progress. At a check, hounds should first work close to where the check occurred, then extending the search further a field to regain the line. Note: A check is not determined by elapsed time. Forward progress has no pre-set distance.

[Alabama John]

Triple S
There are 6-8 of us old beaglers that meet and eat and visit at different restaurants several times a week when its too hot to run.

I'm the only one with a computer and its my sons. These questions come from the group. None of us have run in any format but LP except a few of us who have run in Brace trials. I read these topics to them and they look forward to ya'lls answers. It would come across much, much better if we were in person, no doubt!

On two separate occasions I had cast members and the judges at a LP trial tell me that my dog that ran that day should do good in PP.

Can I ask you some questions about PP?
Are the dogs turned loose to jump their own rabbit and if so, do they get points for it? Or, is it like Brace where the galley jumps the rabbit and calls the next brace to where it was last seen?
If your dog runs a faster speed and actually leaves the pack way behind and runs a solo act, does the judge go with it and call its very short checks for points, or stay and judge the pack that is left?

I've been on here since it started and several topics come up regularly. It's neverhurt us to answer again for those that ask, especially when its too hot to run and we're bored. I don't think though that an explanation of ARHA PP has ever been given from a participant. Educate us.

[JCM]

J D Wiley Good point. Fast footed or fast covering the track distance not counting the swinging out distances, you'll do just as good. Some checks are shorter than 15 seconds, but also some are a lot longer too. Never been to a PP trial, but assure you I run as fast a dog as anyone on here but pretty close on the track for fast dogs unless its after a BIG Canecutter then maybe 4-5 wide. A fast dog runs a far easier rabbit than slow dogs anyway as it doesn't have time to double back or pull those tricks, its running for its life. A lot don't make it.

Let me make a point since what I said seems to bother some on here, even though I told the truth. Go to a LP trial and go out on the cast , everyone is welcome and a sure fine bunch to be around, most come to visit anyway. and many don't bring a dog, just watch and listen to the dogs.


To prove my point, I need the answer to these questions:

(Please break the final two casts points down per dog and total for each cast. How many jump points and how many check points.)

1) At the World trials, in the last 2 casts, how long did it take to jump a rabbit? How many were jumped in each cast?

2) How long of total time did the final two casts each actually spend running?

3) how many points did each dog in each of the final two casts return with?

Not picking on anyone's particular dog, just want to make a point by using actual LP top dpg casts as example for readers on here to think about. good or bad.

"Will anyone truthfully answer or will this be ignored as you can see where I'm going with this."

I was lucky enough to be involved in the last two rounds in the champion class this year. The semi-finals was an amazing cast. We ran for about 58 of the 60 minutes. Two dogs in the cast had jumps. The running was fast and furious, with several drives of some length with no checks. Going in to the last 5 minutes, 3 of the dogs could have easily won. In the finals, we ran 30 minutes out of 60. Earl Bruner's female won (for the second year in a row) 100 - 50. In my opinion, she is an excellent example of what a World Hunt winner should be.

I have been around to run in and watch the last two rounds at least 12 times. In every cast, I have seen dogs that I would be glad to own. Is it this way every time? No, of course not. BUT, some of the best races I have seen in my life have been at the World Hunt in the Champion and Grand Champion classes.

[Alabama John]

Thanks JCM

I would put my money on any dog Earl Bruner put in a cast. Those like him always bring a winner if they get any breaks at all.. Each year, for years some ol the Alabama boys from my area go to Canada and hunt with the Brankos. They all have Branko dogs.

[Triple_S]

John,
i would like nothing better than to talk dogs.
i love to talk dogs. i am pretty new at it.
and you are right some times when people type on the computer it comes off not as intended.
and looks like they want a pissing match, instead of asking questions from the heart.
i may not be the best person to awnser your questions. but i will give it a shot
if i am wrong , someone.. i hope would correct me and we both will learn. no harm no foul.
this is why we are blessed to have this forum. a place we can all talk and ask questions.
after all we are all here for the same reason.

1. Are the dogs turned loose to jump their own rabbit .
yes
2. do they get points for it?
Yes, The judge shall award 20 points per jump per rabbit, if he can determine which hound jumped the rabbit.

3 .is it like Brace where the galley jumps the rabbit and calls the next brace to where it was last seen?
No, it's not like old brace. the dogs jump it and run it ( just like hunt'in) untill it holes up or they lose it and the judge calls a dead track. the judge hunts the dogs , the galley ( ie. handlers) stand back and be quiet. unless the judge instructs you to handle your hound.

4 If your dog runs a faster speed and actually leaves the pack way behind and runs a solo act, does the judge go with it and call its very short checks for points.
yes...
Hound "A" jumps the rabbit and follows track. (The moment the rabbit is jumped, the judge must instruct the handlers to get their hounds in the chase.) No other hound joins hound "A" in the chase, so he/she is running the rabbit solo. Hound "A" has a breakdown in the forward progress, but then regains the line, by giving mouth and making forward progress. Hound "A" is scored 10 points for a check each time it is evident that he/she has had a breakdown in the forward progress, but then recovers the line, by giving mouth and making forward progress. Hound "A" shall receive 20 strike points, 20 jump points and 10 points for each check. In this case, the judge shall continue scoring hound "A" on checks.

and most of these dogs are med.... up to med. fast dogs.
i hope this help's you and your buddys. i think it's cool yall have some place to hang out and talk dogs.
and please forgive my spelling.
Steve