who promotes the best all around RABBIT DAWG?????

[dogwhisperer]

preacher i have to disagree with you on this one.Most of the dogs you see at trials swing and swarp for two reason to get to the front and that they are under pressure in doing so.I have seen these dogs and judged a many of them.But you take the pressure away by running with a slower pack or soloing and some of them would absolutely surprise you.I once seen a dog in a trial probally never run actually in the pack half the race but when this dog split out of the check he never had a break down and was rollin with the bunny(and yes it was a rabbit i saw it}.So therefor just because there lp dogs dont mean they cant run a good rabbit fast and consistent.just my .02

[danny vansickle]

i agree,i see some nice rabbit hounds at lp trials,but the thread is asking what format promotes a true rabbit dog,and lp rules are not set up for true rabbit dogs,at least i dont think so,a true rabbit dog doesnt over run every line and keep barking in the check area till it finally locates the line,plus,it has to loose the line for 15 seconds,a good rabbit dog snapps back fast,recovers and goes,jmho.........


and for the record,i aint bashin lp,i think lp is very exciting,but like the websight says,it is a formet that promotes a more independant dog...........

i like lp,but,lp rules are not set up for line running quick recover dogs to excell in........

[wildcatfan0309]

danny
i hear alot of people talking that if the judges in a mid west spo trial
see a dog constently wanting and running the front that they have the dog picked up
if a dog is running the rabbit faster than the rest of the pack and is doing right i dont see pulling him
why pick up the dominate dog
and who wants a slow dog any way
i may be totaly wrong ive never been to one just hear say

what do you trial in spo just wondering
i know you trial bandit

[rabbitearl]

Preacher there would be alot of hunters that wish they had 5 dogs that could circle a rabbit.

[danny vansickle]

danny
i hear alot of people talking that if the judges in a mid west spo trial
see a dog constently wanting and running the front that they have the dog picked up
if a dog is running the rabbit faster than the rest of the pack and is doing right i dont see pulling him
why pick up the dominate dog
and who wants a slow dog any way
i may be totaly wrong ive never been to one just hear say

what do you trial in spo just wondering
i know you trial bandit

the only time i hVE EVER SEEN JUDGES PICK DOGS OFF THE FRONT IS IF THEY ARE OVERRUNNING THE LINE AND CAUSING LOSSES,IF A DOG OVERSHOOTS A LINE AND GIVESZ MOUTH FOR 20 TO 30 YRDS AFTER MISSING THE TURN,THAT IS TEARING UP THE RACE.......

IF A DOG TAKES THE FRONT AND RUNS IT RIGHT,KEEPS ITS HEAD LEVEL AND SNAPS BACK FAST ON LOSSES OR TURNS THE RABBIT WELL WHILE RUNNING THE FRONT,THAT DOGS WILL BE HEADIN ON TO THE NEXT PACK,BUT IF ONE GETS OUT THERE AND CANT RUN IT RIGHT AND KEEPS TEARING THE RACE UP,IT WILL TAKE THE WALK OF SHAME................

HERE IS A SUGGESTION,GO TO AN AKC TRIAL,IT DOESNT TAKE LONG TO SEE,THESE JUDGES KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOIN,THEY TRY TO KEEP THE BEST DOGS OUT OF EACH PACK,AND LET THE CREAM RISE TO THE TOP,THEN AT THE END OF THE DAY,YOU CAN TELL BY THE TYPE OF WINNERS PACK THEY PUT TOGETHER THAT THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOIN.

AS DOR WHAT DOGS I TRIAL,YEAH,BANDIT,BLUEBOY,SPOT AND JESSIE,AND THIS FALL I WILL BE RUNNING A DOUBLE NINJA/PACESETTER MALE,AND MAYBE A FEMALE IF SHE MAKES THE CUT........

[wildcatfan0309]

ok
ill just take your word for it

[wildhare2]

Don't get Midwest SPO and SPO confused here. SPO or as some call it Slow Pack Option is a totally different animal. They are your brace and gundog brace hounds. Gundog brace ain't bad if you like medium speed and they are good meat hounds as well, but not my cup of tea.

[kentucky mobster 08]

i like when akc judge pick your dog up because he getting to much of the rabbit.the dog is smoking the rabbit running on the line,but is 50 to 60 yard ahead of the pack,he's getting pick up becuase he is to fast.i dont get it.some guys try to explain it to me.they said that the dog is disrupting the pack,by being to fast and the judge cant judge just one dog.they said it was base on the dogs working as a pack.could someone explain it better.

[danny vansickle]

i like when akc judge pick your dog up because he getting to much of the rabbit.the dog is smoking the rabbit running on the line,but is 50 to 60 yard ahead of the pack,he's getting pick up becuase he is to fast.i dont get it.some guys try to explain it to me.they said that the dog is disrupting the pack,by being to fast and the judge cant judge just one dog.they said it was base on the dogs working as a pack.could someone explain it better.

just cause a dog is out front doesnt mean it is doin it right,just like i said in the earlier post,i wasnt at the hunt your talkin about but if i was a bettin man,i would say the dog was givin mouth after overrunning the line and disrupting the pack

midwest promotes a dog that has a lot of foot,can take the front and hold it,but work well in the pack as well,if the rabbit turned left,yourr dog neds to throw the brakes on and go left too,not 50 yards out ion the field barkin the whole time before it figures it out that it overran it.......

[Big Dog]

Kentucky mobster I have never heard the term running too much rabbit used in Midwest spo, I have heard it used in ubgf spo. As for one running 50 or 60 yards ahead of the pack, I have seen very few dogs that had the foot speed to just run off and leave the pack that could do it right.(without cheating) As a matter of fact I have not seen any. I have seen some get 5 or 10 yards ahead of the pack, but not 50 or 60. If they are 50 to 60 yards ahead of the pack then they probably did something wrong. If you know of a dog that can run 60 yards ahead of the pack and do it right then pleae post the dogs name here and I wil l go see him or her run. There may be a few but they are far between and I have yet to see one. You see some fast dogs in spo, but typically the packs are pretty close in foot speed and the dogs may trade places on the front. The dogs that do well in spo don't always have to have the front, but when they get it they can handle it. If they don't have it a lot of them will run 2nd until the lead dog messes up and then they will take over they will not just come out of the race and cut to the front. If they do, they will soon be in the truck. Most judges will not pick you up for cutting or swinging once but if a dog keeps doing it he will get the hook and rightfully so. The major difference that I see between arha little pack dogs on the whole and midwest spo dogs is close check work, proper use of mouth, and line control(making the turns) Not just on a big running indiana rabbit, but on a twisting turning rabbit.

[houndsound]

I've not trialed much but have often wondered this....

Why is it that I hear about dogs getting picked up for causing a loss? Or I should say why do I hear it said that a dog over running a track is messing up the pack? For this to be true wouldn't the dogs behind it have to be running the lead dog and not the rabbit track and shouldn't they be scratched for running off game?

That may sound confusing, but I've heard where a dog over runs a track and gets minused or picked up (depending on the format) and the reason is that it caused a check. Well if the slower dogs behind it are running the rabbit track then what should it matter what that lead dog did? I hope that makes sense.

dk

[wildcatfan0309]

I've not trialed much but have often wondered this....

Why is it that I hear about dogs getting picked up for causing a loss? Or I should say why do I hear it said that a dog over running a track is messing up the pack? For this to be true wouldn't the dogs behind it have to be running the lead dog and not the rabbit track and shouldn't they be scratched for running off game?

That may sound confusing, but I've heard where a dog over runs a track and gets minused or picked up (depending on the format) and the reason is that it caused a check. Well if the slower dogs behind it are running the rabbit track then what should it matter what that lead dog did? I hope that makes sense.

dk

[Big Dog]

A good pack of hounds will make the turn on an overrunning hound, thus exposing his mistake which will get him the hook if he continues to do it

[dogwhisperer]

IN my opinion no format promotes the total rabbit dog.but the meat in the freezer and the wear and tear on the gun sure says alot.most people only trial to pass the time talk to folks and see how their dogs compete against one another..Im not sure if they will ever have a so called good format one that only has a jump because there will be no break downs.You have to understand they have these points sytem in order to even hold a hunt.scoring in pretty limited when your dealing with animals.we all know a break down is a bad thing but how else could you score a dog and be considered a different format..Food for thought

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

I like to read the replies.Bad news boys midwest may be the best but the last time i ran a trial , dont remember the holy water being sprinkled on em before we cut em loose.Rightfully so midwest promotes a nice hound .........They all swing maybe not as bad but they all swing......
It tickles me when the arha gets blasted, Iwill run my grand against your fc anytime, aint much difference believe me.I aint pissing up a rope just telling what i know. Here is a good example.
My 15" bitch got picked up in the semis,didnt swing or reach enuff.Hmm.The next day my 15"male got picked up for skirting not swinging its different.......Strange i thought to myself they have ran together every day of there life......One day its her and next its him ck for check.
There running style is exactley alike......And yes i have seen people in the day get picked up for "running too much rabbit"...Midwest promotes a A1 hound. No doubt but there is lots of nice grands in arha also.

Mapel Valley