New HOY Program

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Brittany H.
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Re: New HOY Program

Post by Brittany H. »

bradadkins wrote:Well I for one am glad to see NKC come out with another points system that allows us to run our hounds. To me looking at this forces dogs to compete thoughout the year and not just win a big hunt and sit back with a big points lead. I think in doing this it will show the more consistant, productive hound over the entire season. Looks to me like ARHA is trying to get people involved in judging and active and I can see where they are coming from.You guys can jump on the hater-wagon if you want..i'm jumping on the next trial..those are the rules....LET"S RUN EM BOYS AND GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BRAD ADKINS

I agree... :nod:
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Re: New HOY Program

Post by danny vansickle »

Scott Green wrote:I think that 25% leaves way too much interpretation on ARHA end.

I love #11, and I am anxious to see how they "enforce" it.

On #2.....great idea....but if someone really doesnt want to put a win on the hound, I think it leaves alot of room for them to get the hound off the ground. What if you are judging the finals of the opens, ol Boomer is destroying the pack, and 5 minutes before the cast is over Boomer's owner tells you, the judge, that something is wrong with Boomer and to scratch him???? What do you do as the judge, say "no"?? Looks like there are just too many people out there that will try to get angles on this and at the end of the day, nothing has changed.

Also, why a $500 donation and $250 going to a club? $250 isnt going to keep a club operating...or from going under...especially a "club of the year"...it looks like that money would be better spent on the HOY owner. After all the club didnt sponsor the hound owner going to trials. And the $500 donation, it will help NKC as a tax write off I am sure, instead of giving it to an individual. Really if the winner of HOY wanted to give $500 to the American Heart Association or their church, it should be their choice. Or they could keep it.

I am sorry, but I dont thing this thing was planned out very well. I think it is great that they are keeping it going, but I am kind a wondering what planet they came to Earth from when they planned out the awards. It looks just too clear cut that it is LESS BEING PAID BACK TO THE TRIALERS, and what is being given out, it is being done so to better benefit the registry.

I love ARHA and their format...good for them for keeping the HOY going. BUT....Hopefully before it is too late, NKC will realize that their REGISTRY is NOTHING without field trials, and field trials are the ONLY reason a hound is NKC registered, and they should start realizing that they need to keep their people happy. They are really like a publically owned company, we are the stock holders, without getting financial kickbacks. Take the company in the wrong direction and the stock holders pull out and you are left with nothing.

JMO

dito........

and like i told joyce a lil bit ago on the phone...........we never really ran for the money,dog food,trophy ect.........the main reason most guys run for the hoy isHALL OF FAME POINTS


AND NOW THEY ARE GONE


I LIKE MOST OF THE NEW SYSTEM,EXCEPT LIKE JIMBO SAID,THE 25% CRAP,BUT I THINK TAKIN AWAY THE HOF POINTS WAS A BIG MISTAKE.
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Re: New HOY Program

Post by Mapel Valley Kennels LLC. »

Brittany H. wrote:
bradadkins wrote:Well I for one am glad to see NKC come out with another points system that allows us to run our hounds. To me looking at this forces dogs to compete thoughout the year and not just win a big hunt and sit back with a big points lead. I think in doing this it will show the more consistant, productive hound over the entire season. Looks to me like ARHA is trying to get people involved in judging and active and I can see where they are coming from.You guys can jump on the hater-wagon if you want..i'm jumping on the next trial..those are the rules....LET"S RUN EM BOYS AND GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BRAD ADKINS

I agree... :nod:
I guess i am dumb :hammer: I won the World, Indiana state and Little World all in 1 calender year.
I will finish second place in hoy. Sounds like i am pretty consistant to me. But i only attend big hunts. Hmmmmmm, with 25% of my dogs accomplishments in the nkc hands,I am smelling fish
Sportsmanship and how much ass i kiss and how often i judge has not only 0 to do with my dog.
Its all about the all mighty dollar. Bottom line. So best of luck to the diehards that run the roads.
I will keep my power at home. In no shape form or fashion should the nkc stipulate my accomplishments. Cause i dont go every weekend? You have got to be kidding me.Long live the
Midwest Gundog Assc........... :bigsmile:
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Blu Tick Beagler
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Re: New HOY Program

Post by Blu Tick Beagler »

Just for the record. NKC(Joyce/Del) and Purina designed this new format.. I don't believe it was any of the PP or LP e-board members. Even as an e-board member this was the first time I have seen it.. The last I heard HOY was dead..I agree that it was time for change, but this format was not the answer. I DO however think that pulling HOF point away from any contest that can be bought by the highest bidder is a good idea.. I just couldn't justify selling 5 or 10 HOF points to a guy/dog that was buying HOY a point at a time.
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Re: New HOY Program

Post by beagler282 »

Already had PP clubs cancelling hunts because only 5 dogs showed up! Won't be the last!
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Re: New HOY Program

Post by danny vansickle »

Blu Tick Beagler wrote:Just for the record. NKC(Joyce/Del) and Purina designed this new format.. I don't believe it was any of the PP or LP e-board members. Even as an e-board member this was the first time I have seen it.. The last I heard HOY was dead..I agree that it was time for change, but this format was not the answer. I DO however think that pulling HOF point away from any contest that can be bought by the highest bidder is a good idea.. I just couldn't justify selling 5 or 10 HOF points to a guy/dog that was buying HOY a point at a time.
not all people buy points though...........

look at scotty kerns this year,he will win the opens and he traveled with no judges,packed no extra hounds,done it in 10 to 12 hunts,and done it right,sure,i dont agree in not signing the scorecard on wins,but,you have to hold your dog open somehow the way it was set up,other than not sighnin the scorecard a couple times on birdie,he done it right.

now i have an idea of what you mean by buying it,but,all they had to do was change the way points are awarded like they did,and enforce the scratcing rule,and leave the rest alone.

by changing the point system to the new format,that does away with signin up 25 dogs in one class and scrathing half of them.problem solved on that one.

enforcing the rule about not signing the scorecard fixes that.

but..takin away hof points,the money,is wrong.

and the 25% rule is not fair by no means,i weigh 400 pounds,i cannot judge dogs at the world hunt and lil world for that matter,so,because i cannot physically judge all the time,i am descrimated against.what about out older beaglers,60.70.and 80 yrs old,they cannot judge at all,so,they too are s.o.l. as far as the 25 % goes.and consider the young man from central ohio that is confined to a wheel chair,his dogs are in his and his dads name,his dad takes him out on casts,he cannot judge,and they pack nice hounds,so,how is the 25% fair to them?

they had it right the first time,leave it the way it was,award points the new way,do away with the 25 % crap,all that does is leave the door open for nkc to award it to who they want to.

and as for scratchin dogs.....it is hard to run for it in the opens with a good hound and not win a hunt.

anyway ya look at it,everyone is not goin to be happy,and this is their last attempt,so,if we keep bitchin,we wont have it,but the 25 % is the biggest bunch of bull,it is unfair to dog owners who cannot judge all the time or any at all.and like jimbo said,if it is goin to be awarded for kissin arse,count me out now.

i can't believe they did not sit down with the e board,watchdog commitee and figure out t good plan,this is alright,but,seems like it is a hurried up decision that favors the people who are able to judge all the time,and are willing to spend the most money throughout the year.jmho
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Re: New HOY Program

Post by bradadkins »

Mapel Valley Kennels LLC. wrote:
Brittany H. wrote:
bradadkins wrote:Well I for one am glad to see NKC come out with another points system that allows us to run our hounds. To me looking at this forces dogs to compete thoughout the year and not just win a big hunt and sit back with a big points lead. I think in doing this it will show the more consistant, productive hound over the entire season. Looks to me like ARHA is trying to get people involved in judging and active and I can see where they are coming from.You guys can jump on the hater-wagon if you want..i'm jumping on the next trial..those are the rules....LET"S RUN EM BOYS AND GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BRAD ADKINS

I agree... :nod:
I guess i am dumb :hammer: I won the World, Indiana state and Little World all in 1 calender year.
I will finish second place in hoy. Sounds like i am pretty consistant to me. But i only attend big hunts. Hmmmmmm, with 25% of my dogs accomplishments in the nkc hands,I am smelling fish
Sportsmanship and how much ass i kiss and how often i judge has not only 0 to do with my dog.
Its all about the all mighty dollar. Bottom line. So best of luck to the diehards that run the roads.
I will keep my power at home. In no shape form or fashion should the nkc stipulate my accomplishments. Cause i dont go every weekend? You have got to be kidding me.Long live the
Midwest Gundog Assc........... :bigsmile:
that is your opinion Jimbo..I respect that.

I don't agree with it all as I am sure no one will agree 100 percent with anything they put out.Take the good with the bad. I agree with the new scoring system and enforcing of the rules. It takes all kinds of people. I don't play golf on the weekends..I run dogs.This is my hobby. I don't do it for the "fame", the stud fee, the money or the 5 dollar trophy. I do it because I enjoy it win or lose. Not to mention the friends I have made over the years. Just wish everyone would be more supportive instead of being so negative.As I have said before...gonna ride this thing till the wheels fall off.
:cool:

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Re: New HOY Program

Post by oricks_outlaws »

I kind of like the new system myself of not knowing what other people have point wise throughout the year. And finding out at the end of the year who is in the running. I think this will keep the cheating down some, not all the way out but should help.

I would like to see the points to start Jan 1st and run throught Dec 31st no matter what class you are in thou just my thought but it reallt doesnt count.

Ron


Thanks for the revamping of the HOY ! :D
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Re: New HOY Program

Post by Blu Tick Beagler »

danny vansickle wrote:
look at scotty kerns this year,he will win the opens and he traveled with no judges,packed no extra hounds,done it in 10 to 12 hunts,and done it right,sure,i dont agree in not signing the scorecard on wins,but,you have to hold your dog open somehow the way it was set up,other than not sighnin the scorecard a couple times on birdie,he done it right.
So you are saying it's ok to minipulate the points by not signing a card, just not ok to add hounds to the hunt and the scratch them...I'm really confused.. Personally, I would say neither deserve HOY

Over the years I have seen really good guys with outstanding hounds stoop to levels that would suprise a priest.. Just to win HOY.. I can not justify degrading my character or the ability of my hound to minipulate a contest. I am truely disappointed in a couple individials in this years race. I call them my friends, but HOY as brought out a side of them I would rather not have known.
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Re: New HOY Program

Post by Mapel Valley Kennels LLC. »

Thats cool Brad, I am jumping while it still has wheels.I have been in arha since 1988. Grade dogs ruled and crooks were thinner. So i have supported this org since it was a baby. I also judged when
cast were 2 hours by myself. Look around and take notice, Your people that created and supported it are leaving. Maybe i am getting older but i miss the good old days. Rules are rules .
May the best hound win. Looks to me they are creating a deal were the the click wins not the hound. Keeping on spending that money ;) Nkc loves ya man. Over and out
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Scott Green
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Re: New HOY Program

Post by Scott Green »

I am sure it will be the same as it has been in the past-

once your hound moves from the Opens to the Champions, the points start over. They do not carry over from class to class, they reset.

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Re: New HOY Program

Post by Hatfield »

I don't think the real problem was addressed. The issue with most of this problem is when you move up from open to champ and then on to grand you loose the oppurtunity to gain points in the class you just came out of. That is the only reason I can see anyone would not want to win every hunt they were entered in. In my opinion the changes were not effective.
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Re: New HOY Program

Post by remington »

well it doesnt matter what they do , theres no way to please everyone. im just glad they have did it this way. it seems to me like nkc and arha are trying to make it fair for everyone. not just a select few. what i dont understand is people saying they wont go to the "LITTLE" hunts. why not???, if u have dogs good enough for the big hunts, they should breeze through these small hunts. i am all for the new rules. lets all remember the little hunts are a part of nkc too. but like ive said before. just my oppinion. what ever they do ill go. win or lose. and most of the time its lose. but i still love it. i dont want to make anyone mad. just stating my oppinion.



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Re: New HOY Program

Post by bennetdr »

Hatfield wrote:I don't think the real problem was addressed. The issue with most of this problem is when you move up from open to champ and then on to grand you loose the oppurtunity to gain points in the class you just came out of. That is the only reason I can see anyone would not want to win every hunt they were entered in. In my opinion the changes were not effective.

I think if your going to run all three classes against each other for HOY. Then all the points for that year should count what ever class you competed in.
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Re: New HOY Program

Post by mobeagler »

If I wanted my dog to get recognition, I would want him to have a high winning percantage rather than have a bunch of 2nds and non-signed score cards so I could get HOY. A high win % would tell me more about a dog. Also, with NKC forcing dogs to move up instead of having a chance to run for HOY if a person so chooses, they, IMO, are making people manipulate the rules as far as not signing for wins.

It really doesn't matter to me, I mainly go to meet people and see dogs run. I love the competition. Some times I get aggrevated with how some people perceive this "HOBBY" to be. sing a pupLike it is all about fame or money. I know for myself, I'd have a hell of alot more money if I had a different hobby, but not near as much fun and gratification that a get from raising a pup and giving it a chance to show it's abilities. And if I'm lucky, I get a good one that makes a Champion on paper. As for me and Chad and Mikel, I think we have a different Champ about everytime we run. That's where it really counts. Kicking your buddies a**. LOL.

Good God people, go have some fun.

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