capec bluewater rabbit trial

chapkosbeagles · Post by **chapkosbeagles** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:58 am

the explanation was not enought score but my first cast my dog came thew on more lines with the judge standing next to me than i saw in any other cast all day. the other explnation was they were cold and hungry well i had a dog in every cast so i was cold and hungry too,but you still have to get a rabbit before u call it . i got ripped off that cast my dog dident even have a chance to run a rabbit. the judges get PAIED TO BE THERE I PAY TO BE THERE. That is why i feel it was not a very good trial. the rules state every dog gets a chance to run a rabbit before being picked up. The olny thing ran in 38 min wass a deer for about 15 now that burned up our hunting time. So in that cast the dogs got maybe 15 to 20 min to hunt. got an explanation for that?

bill (flint river ) · Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:20 pm

here's my number.... 586-405-7120 i will be more then happy to run any time. i'll bring 1 2 year old male 2 year old female and a 1 year old female. let me know, i am a little busy till sunday after noon.

bill

chapkosbeagles · Post by **chapkosbeagles** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:09 pm

sounds good i am layed off for the winter so i run every day just let me no when it is good for you

tandd · Post by **tandd** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:17 pm

It's hard to imagine all the work and preparation that goes into holding and judging a field trial. To get on here and bash a club or a trial, when you are obviously new to this format, is absolutely ridiculous. I have been running dogs in the MWBGA since 1986 and have been upset many times. You have to take the bad with the good and if you don't like it stay home. But don't get on here and bad mouth things you are ignorant about. I was happy with the results. You might want to try using spell check too. As far as not promoting good rabbit dogs is concerned, that absolutely makes no sense. I would venture to guess that most dogs that are doing well in UKC and ARHA are AKC registered or come from dogs that were. I know many people that ran in other formats and succeeded. They now run AKC and are tearing it up. Just ask Kevin Monroe, for example. Ackermanich, you are supposed to be doing homework, not playing around on the computer.

chapkosbeagles · Post by **chapkosbeagles** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:28 pm

i am not bashing anything sorry you take my opeion so personal. I just feel that every dog should get its fair chance,and my dogs dident even get a fair chance agains eachother.and i mean chance to score a rabbit what some cast get to run rabbits and some dont how can you make any sence of that?

tandd · Post by **tandd** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:41 pm

It sounded to me like bashing and bad mouthing. And as far as your opinion goes, I could care less. It gets old. People should not be so judgmental if they have not been involved or participated in all the aspects of holding and judging a field trial. Try not to take it so personal when your dog doesn't get what you think it deserved. If that is going to be your attitude every time you think you got the shaft you need to stay home, because it will absolutely happen again. Better luck next time. Take it as a learning experience and move on.

Steve Mikkelson · Post by **Steve Mikkelson** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:30 pm

joe childers · Post by **joe childers** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:11 pm

i was one of the judges that you are talking about, and we gave every pack of dogs 1 hour in the first series. dave put the time we started on the score card of every pack. so were ever you come up with your time it is wrong. so next time you want to get on here and start s@#$ make sure your facts are right.

Jay Schrader · Post by **Jay Schrader** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:56 am

Derek,

Perhaps I was harsher with you yesterday than I needed to be. I apologize for that. I appreciate your exuberance for the sport that we all enjoy. I also appreciate that positive change comes from people questioning policy. I have no issue with wanting to debate field trial rules or formats. I think that you should learn the AKC rules so that you know what is expected of the judges and your options when you feel that the judges did not fulfill their duty. I have an extra copy of the AKC field trial rule book that I would be happy to mail to you.

The problem that I had with your original post was the direct reference to Blue Water Beagle Club and the two judges. I was not in the field during the particular pack that you mentioned, but the judges came to the field trial chairman and myself (field trial secretary) and explained the situation before ordering up the pack. They told us that the pack had been on the ground for an hour with one deer race and no rabbits jumped. They also said that they had repeated asked the handlers to work to get a rabbit jumped and received little cooperation. Based on the performance of the earlier packs and the amount of dogs to get through we agreed that pack had ample opportunity to produce a rabbit. Had the dogs struck one minute earlier we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Had we known that the dogs would get a rabbit up right after ordering the pack up, the pack wouldn't have been ordered up then. Every one wanted every pack to have the same opportunity. Unfortunately conditions change. Was that pack on the ground for an hour or 38 minutes as you claim? I don’t know. I wasn’t watching the time that closely. I tend to think that you made a mistake in your time keeping. But if you are correct and the judges were off in their time keeping I believe that it was an honest mistake.

At every field trial we would like for everyone to go home feeling that they got a fair chance and they were treated with respect and hospitality. As hard as we try that doesn’t always work out. You came to me with more of a question about running time than a complaint. Had you wanted to file a formal complaint, I would have given you the opportunity to submit your complaint in writing.

Words are very dangerous. People’s reputations have been ruined from careless words. The internet message boards only compound the problem.

To suggest that your dog did not get a fair opportunity because the judges were cold and hungry is wrong. You owe those two men an apology.

Jay Schrader
586-255-1671
Feel free to call me any evening.

tom summers · Post by **tom summers** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:47 am

Well said Jay!!
Coming from a judges point of view you are there to pick the best hound that day. Most of the dogs will fall short for what ever reason. Do not take it out on the judges or the club for just that falling short.

Tom Summers

Roy Swafford · Post by **Roy Swafford** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:51 pm

Derek, if I remember correctly one of the first UKC trials you was at you felt you got short changed and your actions got you barred from the Kal Val Beagle Club. Who would of thought different format and still not happy. Instead of evaluating Blue Water maybe a little self evaulation is in order.

wildhare2 · Post by **wildhare2** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:16 pm

Well that's some interesting information. If the trials aren't fun, then you shouldn't go. Trials are supposed to be about fellowship and good times running dogs. I've gotten mad a time or two, but I try not to let that get in the way of having fun. It's too easy to get competitive and forget the fact that they are dogs and are going to make mistakes and sometimes look stupid. Just try to relax and have a good time with other beaglers doing something you love to do.

chapkosbeagles · Post by **chapkosbeagles** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:24 pm

yeha my first trial in ukc thow boys really educated me. roy i think was one of them. here is what i have to say roy bring your best dog and your wallet come run i would be happy to take your money dont forgrt the score card. you can pick witch one you run ageinst and judge but the olny ukc trial that dog lost was the day you and your buddies cheated him that must say something a dog that is 250 plus on your dogs in 45 min u just look to get ride off i had let that go and won a lot of trials since than but like i said come run no picking the puppys that was not the case in this trial i was debating hunting time

JUDE · Post by **JUDE** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:00 pm

Hmmm let me see

dogs that don't jump their own rabbit

.

chapkosbeagles · Post by **chapkosbeagles** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:05 pm

I did not mean to single out the bluewater beagle club, or the judges I apologise. I just wanted to talk about some of the format,and i do this cause that roy guy is wright i have had problums in ukc it is hard to find a judge that dont favor his dog. You can ask anyone i have ever judged i am as fair as they come. I am harder on my dogs cause i exspect them to do things wright and if they dont i sell them period. i have been cheated so i got a dog they can cheat, but they can olny cheat him so much take a line away he comes back too get two more so i just sit back and watch him win I have had alot of sucess in ukc hardly been beat but havent made it to the big hunts.I now what i got thow i run with akc champions and ukc grandchampions all the time. Every dog i have is in front or if not right up there. so that roy guy can say what he wants i had let my hard feelings go. he just likes to remember how they educated me. and if he wants to keep talking i will be happy to tell that story and that would be a big post I promiss it wouldent look good for roys charecter roy i just made them ukc champs now it is on to akc it just takes a little longer not as many trials but i took my males up there. Where were you? cant hang? once again sorry to the bluewater club and judges.