UKC 's New format ?

WrongsideRandy · Post by **WrongsideRandy** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:44 am

Dave

I think you should just load up your meat drivers and go lay a whipping on Murphy and Swings dogs.....that should hush em! Nothing smarts like getting beat by an old professional road hunter.

You're gonna have to step up...............

LOL

Randy

Alabama John · Post by **Alabama John** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:50 am

I like the part of judging the dogs that come across first and those that follow for 15 seconds. Any later than that should be disqualified regardless of how close or however they are trailing. One fast dog in a cast would have a big advantage here. Might be the only dog with plus points, all others disqualified.

Can we older folks appoint a designated pitch hitter to chase the dogs while we stand on the road?

I think this is going to promote a dog that runs too slow for me. If you all can follow behind them pushing through stuff where rabbits run, much less a crowd, without a lot of swinging, cutting across and missing seeing half of the race "by the judges", then the dogs are way too slow for me.

Redtick · Post by **Redtick** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:54 am

Trent, forty + years ago, when I was 13-14 years old, I used to ride a school bus home with my buddy. Me and his cousin used to run "their" beagles until dark, then I would walk across town by myself (about 4 miles), and then do it the next day. I still hunt with the same guys and they could care less about competition beagles. They do have great "meat dog" beagles. One of them still has dogs we have bred over the years. I decided to get into competition beagling and have bought some competition style beagles. So what does that have to do with UKC's new format? Nothing. You apparently can not comment on the issues so you have to launch a personal attack. Pretty pitiful in my book. Maybe should should read the rules so you will have a useful comment or is that past your intellectual ability?

swing · Post by **swing** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:10 am

You apparently can not comment on the issues so you have to launch a personal attack.

Isnt that what got you to where your not even allowed to run in this new format. You should know alot about personal attacks.
Redtick I have made up my mind I am not going to let up on you this time until everyone on these boards have realized you are a fool and a complete liar about beagles.

I am going to go back over the last few years and bring up post where you have totally changed your stories to suit your needs, where you got rid of a dog because it was gunshy you said in one post then in another you said you got rid of it due to dew claws.
So I hope your ready to defend yourself because I aint going to let up.
You have trashed every format out there for some reason or another, I have been totally barred from NKC for calling a cheater a cheater, but you know what some of the better dogs I have ran against are good dogs in that registry so I aint going to say their degrees mean nothing to me just because I have been barred.
You can toot your horn all you want about your beagles and coondogs, I use to coonhunt alot, I have even been to Flora Ill. to black and tan days a few years back, I didnt see no signs posted at the hunt REDTICK is on the premise's matter a fact I never even seen your name till you came on the boards.
Enough on that, just show us something in beagles that you have produced that has done anything in any registry?

Post by **Bev** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:13 am

Redtick wrote: You apparently can not comment on the issues so you have to launch a personal attack. Pretty pitiful in my book.

You mean kinda like the personal attacks you keep launching about Todd Morgan and UKC? I'll be watching a little more closely, Redtick. Todd Morgan is not only a good client of mine, he's also my FRIEND. One more dig at him and you're history on this board... and I'm not even kidding.

swing · Post by **swing** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:14 am

Can we older folks appoint a designated pitch hitter to chase the dogs while we stand on the road?

I agree with John, let the cast pick one of the guys to run over the dogs and make it be a majority vote.
Then let the gallery score all they can from the best spot possible then tally up the score after its over.

Alabama John · Post by **Alabama John** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:41 am

Swing
I'm good at cutting across, cutting off, and getting where I can see the dogs coming. Glad we can score from those positions. Hope someday UKC will get down here, I believe we have a dog or two that would do good.

Treedogs · Post by **Treedogs** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:16 am

Redtick wrote: They do have great "meat dog" beagles. One of them still has dogs we have bred over the years.

I decided to get into competition beagling and have bought some competition style beagles.

Well Hello Dave:

I am basically new into the sport of beagles. Haven't had any rabbit dogs since high school, and that has been a long time. However I have had a coon-dog or two. Not really sure about the difference in a "competition beagle", and a "meat dog"? I know in coon-hounds it is one in the same. If they are NOT both, then you have nothing. Again, I must admit I don't know the difference in a competition beagle and a good gun dog, but I have hunted with several good gun dogs years ago, that belonged to a friend of mine. By all means, please tell me the difference. This is an honest question, and not a trap question.

Regards,
David W. Fletcher

JIMMIE ABSHIRE · Post by **JIMMIE ABSHIRE** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:55 am

YOU KNOW MR DAVE FLECTHER , YOU JUST MADE ONE OF THE BEST COMMENTS I HAVE READ IN QUITE A WHILE ------- MEAT HOUNDS AND FIELD TRIAL DOGS ,SHOULD BE 1 IN THE SAME ,IF I CANT KILL RABBITS OFF TRIAL DOGS THEY WILL LIVE A SHORT LIFE AT MY HOUSE ,NO I WILL NOT SELL EM AND GIVE EN AWAY .THATS LOTS OF TODAYS PROBLEMS ------ MY TRIAL DOGS ARE MY HUNTING DOGS AND THOSE OF YOU THAT SAY YOU CANT KILL RABBITS OFF FAST DOGS ARE APPARENTLY NOT TRUE GUN HUNTERS ....... YOU GOT THESE PEOPLE WHICH IN VENTURE ARE ABOUT 50 PERCENT OF THESE GUYS ON THIS BOARD ,MAKING THESE WORLD BEATER CROSSES FUNNY THOUGH WHERE ARE THEY? JUST BECAUSE IT SAYS BRANKO ON THE PEDIGREE,GUYS JUMP UP AND BRED EM .WHY ?FOR ONCE I WISH SOME OFF YOU WOULD EXPLAIN TO ALL OF US DUMMIES HOW LINE BREEDING WORKS CUZ I DOUBT MOST REALLY KNOW. YOU BRED OFF NAMES NOT TRAITS .I AM SEEING THESE SUPER HOUNDS THAT A.WOULD RATHER RUN COLD TRACKS THAN ANYTHING B. CANT CIRCLE A RABBIT C. TRASHY D. NO HUNT OR VERY LITTLE . E. WOULD NOT OF MADE THE CUT 15 YEARS AGO. THE ONLY THING THEY ARE GOOD AT IS TALKING ABOUT THESES PEDIGREES WAKE UP ,THERE HAS NOT BEEN NOTHING IN THE LAST FIVE TO TEN YEARS COME DOWN THE PIPES THATS A SUPER DOG MAY BE A FEW ALSO I USE BRANKO FREELY I AM JUST MAKING A POINT NOT TRYING TO OFFEND ,SO THE NEXT TIME U GET BLOWED OUT AT THETRIAL YOU LIVE FOR AND YOUR RABBIT HUNT SUCKED WHILE YOU BITCHIN YOU MIGHT WANT TO RE-EVAULATE YOUR TOP NOTCH BREEDING PROGRAM

dogrunnerone · Post by **dogrunnerone** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:01 pm

Mr Fletcher,

I have followed many of your posts on the PKC website and have came to the conclusion that you know what a hound is. No difference if it is a coonhound or a beagle. A meatdog is a competition dog and usually the best kind. I'm like Jim, I hunt my fast, no count, Grand rabbit champions and champions and heck even an open class hound too. But one thing is for sure, if they can't bring the rabbit back and/or if they are gun shy, they are gone and not to someone else's kennel. I have over time had good gun dogs that love to run rabbits and love the sound of the gun but haven't had success in competition for one reason or another. I have one female now that is out of Hall of Fame/Grand Rabbit Champion/World Champion Waylon's Bomb. She is as described above. Will I cull her? No Way! She would make a gun hunter very happy! Ask the owner of her sire Sam Wells if he thinks ole Bomb is a meatdog or a competition dog. I will tell you right now Sam wants a jump/hunt dog that brings the 400-500 rabbits a year back to the gun. But look at his titles (which are meaningless to some) that come from ARHA Little Pack (dogs that can't circle a rabbit and run squirrels for plus points) and it shows that titles and bringing the rabbit back to the gun can go hand in hand.

Welcome to the world of Beagles.

houndsound · Post by **houndsound** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:05 pm

I know, I've never understood when people advertise dogs and say "good gun dog, just not a trial dog" ????? Makes no sense to me. Or when people say "those trial dogs aren't good gun dogs" ???? makes no sense to me, then again I ain't the smartest fella' in the world.

dk

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:23 pm

Guys, I had a female that I did not consider a trial dog. I sold this grade female to a guy in Michigan and he is thrilled to death with her and she fits his pack great. I have killed many rabbits in front of her but she is not a trial dog. Yes I did take her to trials but she did not have the foot speed to be competitive enough for ME . Could she win a trial? Heck yeah throw down with some dogs her speed or throw down with some that might accidently have a dog that might get an off game and there you have it. This little girl was full blown trash-free and ran a good rabbit back to the gun but she could not consistently be at the front of the pack. She will take her time and find the last rabbit that gave them the slip and once the track is dead and its time to move on in a trial the dog needs to be willing to just stop and go to the next one. We went hunting one time and tried getting her to come in for at least 10 minutes when we thiought the rabbit holed and wanted to move on but she did not want to leave it and lo and behold she found it again and brought it to my buddy and he killed it. That is just a little info from my perspective on the difference between a trial dog and a great gundog. Thanks, Paul Greenwood

Treedogs · Post by **Treedogs** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:06 pm

dogrunnerone wrote: I have one female now that is out of Hall of Fame/Grand Rabbit Champion/World Champion Waylon's Bomb. She is as described above. Will I cull her? No Way! She would make a gun hunter very happy!

Mr. Tull:

With Christmas knockin' at our doorstep, and with the Holiday Season deep within your heart, I am sure you would like to send that little female down my way, so that I can start this new hobby with a good gun dog.....watcha say?

I do appreciate everyone's comments...I found out what I already figured..a good gun dog is a good competition dog, and visa versa. In hounds I will not tolerate a track straddler one minute, and don't plan to tolerate it in a beagle either. I like a fast hound, and will enjoy a fast beagle also.

Wishing all of you a Merry Christmas from down in Texas.

Regards,
David W. Fletcher

P.S. Mr. Tull.....send that female down here by some of those coon-hunters coming to the Lone Star 5000 around the first of Jan. I'll treat her good and give her a good home.

Ted Peercy · Post by **Ted Peercy** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:51 pm

I've gun hunted and owned beagles for 47 years. The last 10 years of that 47, I have also been into trialing. In that last 10 years, I've had a lot of good gun dogs that were not good trial dogs. Here's why-IN MY OPINION, a dog has to claim a check extremely fast to be a good trial dog. I'm referring to ARHA Little Pack because that is all I've ever trialed. It really doesn't matter in gun hunting who claims that check first. I feel that some of the more popular bloodlines will be too sure on that line before they open. In Little Pack, that hesitation is the difference in maybe becoming a champion and being a grand champion. If you just gun hunt, who cares who gets that check. Just my opinion.

houndsound · Post by **houndsound** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:09 pm

That's something that needs to be considered in this discussion......it's tough to say that a good gun dog isn't a good trial dog.......just for the fact that there is like ....well, who knows how many different formats. To say a dog is good at hunting but to slow to be a trial dog.....well maybe to slow to be a LP dog, but surley there is another format somewhere where that dogs positive qualities would help it really shine.

dk