What format?

[TickedDog]

I am not trying to start a debate just asking an honest question. I do not really have what you would consider a fast hound. I like more of a medium to medium fast type dog. My biggest thing that I like in a dog is intense hunt and desire to jump a rabbit even in the thickest cover. Once the rabbit is jumped I like my dogs to run at a good speed but still hold the line without many breakdowns. I also like for my dogs to run the rabbit and not another dog even if it is getting burnt. What format would benefit a dog of this style or are all formats geared mostly for speed. The only one I know anything about is UKC and I know that the most points are earned on the first dog to cross the line so I am guessing a fast dog would be best to hunt in UKC

[Hunter]

Hey Ticked, Keep an eye open for the new division that is coming up in UKC. It should be what you are looking for. Good Luck, Paul

[HatterasBob]

ARHA PP may be what you want. Fairly clean but with some intensity.

[houndsound]

Three folks could all go to one trial and describe it to you differently. The best thing to do is go to all of them...... see which one you like the best.

dk

[Redtick]

I reckon part of it would depend on whether you would like to see a rabbit before plus points are awarded and the entire cast being able to participate in the judging or if you trust some judge off by himself who may be part of some "Mafia" or some other type of conspriracy judging your dog with this judgement being final. There are some formats that would reward a mouthy, cold trailing type of dog while there may be some formats where a tighter mouthed, hotter nosed dog that won't be drawing many minus points on tracks that fail to produce a rabbit. There may be some formats where you may not want your dog to be too broke (most tracks get plussed) or some formats that your dog better be on a rabbit or he is going to get minussed whether off game is seen or not because if a track is started and no rabbit is seen, minus points are awarded unless the rabbit is holed.
Like on other threads I have posted on, I am not critizing any man or any man's dogs, but there are some clear differences in what type off dog that may win in some of the different formats (in my humble opinion). That is why I say you better hunt with a dog or at least see a video of the dog running a rabbit before you use some title as proof of excellence.

[JMurphy]

Redtick as usual up to the same tricks.I had about a paragraph in this pos t dedicated to you but Ticked Dog said he didnt want a debate so I deleted it.
Ticked Dog;
Hatteras Bob and Houndsound gave you good answers.There can be quite a bit of variation in what people call a medium speed dog but I would probably start with AKC traditional SPO(as Opposed to midwest spo, they run a pretty steppy hound) and ARHA progressive pack.Beaglers in general are a great group and will help you.If you will post what part of WV redhouse is close to I am sure you will get some invitations to run.I dont get that far east very often but I know Jr dunlap runs UKC over that way and he is a really good guy.most of all have fun.
J.Murphy/Murphys Kennel

[Dan Savage]

If the new UKC format comes up it should be nice and the ARHA PP may be what you want.

I am sorry but I have to say this. Redtick I rarely post on this board and have only been reading them for about three years. I am, as many around these boards am tired of hearing the same old BULL from you. You represent yourself to know so much but show yourself to show so little. I have heard it said that if you want to really show people how little you know tell them how much you think you know and you have certainly done that.

[swing]

Redtick,
As you said the other day it was nice that I didnt post negative stuff to you anymore or something to that effect, but I am going to for warn you, you are on my last nerve and I dont think you want me to even start on you so, knock it off.

[HatterasBob]

Ticked Dog,

I didn't have time to give you a more complete answer last time so I'll do better this time. I run trials from AKC Large Pack on Hare (LPH) to ARHA PP, but not with the same dogs. My LPH dogs do well in UKC, ARHA Large Pack (LP) and Mid-West AKC SPO, first in the pack wins, usually if fairly clean. Then I also have my medium to upper medium speed dogs. These may be my best hunting dogs. They have tons of hunt, which many hare dogs don't, and line control. My favority male is a made-to-order ARHA PP, (never been in one but will be this Sunday) and PBGA AKC SPO. Although, the SPO does not reward a dog for hunt, the ARHA does, so if you have a dog with hunt and it jumps alot rabbits you may be better off in AHRA PP. Also, grade dogs can run AHRA, if they don't happen to be AKC. The AKC trials advertise judges ahead of time, so there is a greater potential for hidden agendas, the ARHA doesn't, not that the ARHA doesn't have issues. Ticked Dog, these are my honest evaulations of what I have learned over the last 4 years I've been trialing. I hope this helps. As I stated before, try an ARHA PP or an AKC SPO in Pennsylvania. West Virginia and Kentucky SPO can be either blazing fast or unbelievably slow, not much in the middle. JMHO

[WELLS WOODS]

Ticked Dog,
I have judged in the AKC Mid-West for several years and have judged with just about every judge in the Mid-West at one time or another. I can tell you exactly what we are looking for. First, a dog must show that he has good hunt or it will be disqualified before a rabbit is ever jumped. When the rabbit is up we look for a hound that is clean mouthed, but not tight mouthed. We like hounds that can run fast and control the line with accuracy and work the check close from the inside out. A hound that trys to run too fast that can't control the line will usually get in trouble by overrunning, racing, spreading real wide in the check area too soon, leaving checks, or skirting the pack by leaving the line to try and swing ahead of the pack. Other faults that may get a hound disqualified are backtracking, running mute, barking around on offgame or cold trailing repeatedly without producing a rabbit, or a hound that is slow to the point that it can't keep up with the pack. We try to get the extremely faulty hounds out first that are faulty to the point that they are disrupting the pack continuously. Judges in the MidWest are rabbit hunters first and we realize that all hounds are going to mess up, but when the bad far outweighs the good in a hound we're not going to keep him around very long. Some hounds are not faulty, but just don't seem to be able to contribute to the running very much and get outscored by the other hounds. We will keep a slightly faulty hound that gets a lot of good done over a hound that may be less faulty, but accomplishes very little.

I have rarely had disagreements with other judges to the point that I questioned thier honesty. Most judges are there for one reason and that is to find the best dogs there that day. I think good judges do it for the enjoyment of watching good hounds run and they like the challenge of picking the best hounds out of a group. The clubs in the Mid-West try do elect hard working judges that are physically able to do whatever it takes to see the majority of the running; they also look for judges that are honest that judge the hounds, not the handler and judges that are proven to be knowlegeable about dogs.

This is my honest evaluation of the AKC Mid-West after my experience and involvement since 1992.

[TOUCHSTONE]

You will find good and bad in anything you do. Regardless, the cream often manages to rise to the top. Try several formats but keep an open mind and don't let any one day or circumstance be a deciding factor. Study the format. decide if the characteristics that lead to gaining or loosing points suits what you want to develop in your program. Go to watch great dogs run and focus on your breeding program. I like UKC the best so far because the format promotes dogs that are effective in a hunting situation. The dogs must be honest, accurate, and efficient. Dogs that waste a hunters time will not do well in the long run. Good luck and keep us posted. Dan

[tommyg]

I am not trying to start a debate just asking an honest question. I do not really have what you would consider a fast hound. I like more of a medium to medium fast type dog. My biggest thing that I like in a dog is intense hunt and desire to jump a rabbit even in the thickest cover. Once the rabbit is jumped I like my dogs to run at a good speed but still hold the line without many breakdowns. I also like for my dogs to run the rabbit and not another dog even if it is getting burnt. What format would benefit a dog of this style or are all formats geared mostly for speed. The only one I know anything about is UKC and I know that the most points are earned on the first dog to cross the line so I am guessing a fast dog would be best to hunt in UKC

A realy fast hound in the UKC is a good thing if they can handle the line. Most of the lines I've scored in the UKC belonged to the best line running hound,they eat a fast hound up on breakdowns which a fast hound most of the time causes. I have a female thats a 6.5 to 7 speed that got 90% of the lines in the casts because she ran with control. She also got most of the jumps.
I,ve seen hounds that had alot of foot and no control go home early. I don't like the 1 min check in the UKC but thats the rule,by the time a minutes up it can get ugly.