HONEST/FAIR MEASURING

[danny vansickle]

Did you guys notice how respectful he was to call me Mr. Robert Hatfield. I knew those collars would teach him to handle.

i saw it posted like that somewhere before so,i kept it like that,dont you know that your my hero haterfield

[bullboy]

i think measuring is a issue the 1 gentleman that you talked about i once measured a 16 1/2 bitch out so i don't know about him there are other problems that seemed more apparent when marshalling and observing

[Haire-Bear]

NCBeagler, not being argumentive but then there would be guys trying to get 14 1/8-1/2" hounds into the 14 " class and same 16 1/4-1/2" over into the 16" class. Then what would we do with our true 13" hounds? If we went by existing rules and stuck by/with them we wouldn't need to change the breed standard. The guys like Tex Dowlearn,The Late Jim Fairman, Phil Gage,Howard Cate,Wayne Heckley and some of Jim Jones' hounds are true 13" hounds bred from 13" stock, so it can be done, it ain't easy 'cause I can't make one yet,LOL. And yes AKC need a to take a better look at this than that stupid refresher course on judging. Campbell

[Pike Ridge Beagles]

I was reading a newer issue of Better Beagling today and was looking at the pics of the 13" class dogs that made 1st through NBQ from various states and I seen where many of the clubs from Pennsylvania to the Northeast seem to be doing it correctly. Just an observation. Normally, I don't pay a lot of attention to size but due to all the hype lately concerning size I took a closer look. There were other various clubs that stacked up closely in all classes as well, then there were other pics that appeared to show quite a bit of variance beyond 2 inches.
Interesting...

[ncbeagler]

[quote="Haire-Bear"]NCBeagler, not being argumentive but then there would be guys trying to get 14 1/8-1/2" hounds into the 14 " class and same 16 1/4-1/2" over into the 16" class. Then what would we do with our true 13" hounds? If we went by existing rules and stuck by/with them we wouldn't need to change the breed standard. The guys like Tex Dowlearn,The Late Jim Fairman, Phil Gage,Howard Cate,Wayne Heckley and some of Jim Jones' hounds are true 13" hounds bred from 13" stock, so it can be done, it ain't easy 'cause I can't make one yet,LOL. And yes AKC need a to take a better look at this than that stupid refresher course on judging. Campbell[/quote]


Haire-Bear you proabaily are right, and yes Pike Ridge a picture is worth a 1000 words-any experienced houndsman can spot those over as they often stick out like an icon amongst the others on the podium.

[ncbeagler]

I ONCE AT A TRIAL WHERE THE STAND WAS FOUND TO BE AN 1/8 INCH OFF.THAT WAS THE ONLY TIME I EVER HAD A DOG GET MEASURED OUT.THEY ENDED UP GETTING A NEW STAND.

[mybeagles]

Always figured if a guy was stupid enough to stand on a winners bench with a dog that towers over the other dogs they were not too bright.

I have been accused of being too strict when measuring. Measured 6 out of one trial, 4 or 5 other times. My phone stopped ringing to judge, so guess that its all good. Its a thankless job. 13 1/16 you go run with big dogs, 15 1/16 you go home. Not convinced the measuring system is very accurate though. Have personally witness owners in both the MWGA and NMHA beating their dogs with a leather strap before they take them up for measurement. This is sickening and turned me away from trialing for a while. Then I came to the conclusion that as long as I do whats right, Im not going to concern myself with others. NO thrill in finishing a 14" hound in the 13" class unless your a crook.

Worst situation I have been in is judging with a cheater. Dog measured 13 1/2, and my judging partner hollers out 13". I just tipped the stand over and said "wait" I think we got a bad measurement. I think my partner got the point. We measure the dog out.

Tough to keep things civil, but in my opinion the best way to clean up the measuring is to expose people. If that means posting names on a board that cheat than so be it. When no one shows up to your trials, I guess they dont like your judges.... There are clubs that used to run 250-300 dogs that now run 70. Poor judging has a lot to do with that.

Mybeagles

[Butch Saari]

Mybeagles wrote(No thrill in finishing a 14" hound in the 13" class unless your a crook) Mybeagles you hit it right on the head.What I have seen in the Northern Michigan Hare Association is when a hound finishes in the class that they shoundnt have even been running in people dont remember how good the hound was. The first thing they think of when the hounds name is brought up is THAT S.O.B. SHOULDNT BE A F.C. IT RAN IN THE WRONG CLASS.

[carn]

how and the world can you tell they are measuring correct from a pic four hounds maybe 10" and the other 13"

[jim matuszewski]

how and the world can you tell they are measuring correct from a pic four hounds maybe 10" and the other 13"

!)' 10", are there a lot o dogs trialed that size, Just asking. Thanks

[ncbeagler]

DELETE THIS I FEEL WAS HASHED OUT IN THE JASMINE POST.

[mybeagles]

ncbeagler,

I have NO idea who you are, or if you enter oversize dogs or not. If the shoe fits wear it, if it doesnt, keep moving. There are plenty who fit into those shoes and I hope it makes them consider what other people think of them. The comment was generic based on some pictures I have seen posted.

To answer the question about the 10" beagles: You can tell by sizing the dogs up to the handlers. If the bench is waist high, and the dogs tower up to owners shoulder and appear to be 35-40lbs their BIG. I trialed an 11 3/4" beagle for a while. She was at least an inch smaller than every other dog entered. Most guys cull or give away runts, she just happened to be an awsome little gyp that managed to place a couple times even in Large pack.

I dont believe you can be SMART and DISHONEST. Everyone views things differently, but if your dishonest your a fool in my book. If you were smart, you would also be honest. Think about what you are saying. Society has led us to believe ALL doctors, lawyers etc are smart and all the manual labor work force, factory workers and military guys are a step below. I have a college education, score high on scholastic test etc, but if I were dishonest I would still be a fool, not too bright, or anyway you want to word it. Former President Clinton was a rhode scolar and President of the United States. When he messed around on his wife, lied to a grand jury and all other sorts of dishonest behavior he's not to bright in my opinion.

Mybeagles

[Pike Ridge Beagles]

I dont believe you can be SMART and DISHONEST. Everyone views things differently, but if your dishonest your a fool in my book. If you were smart, you would also be honest.

Mybeagles

NC Beagler. I can assure you mybeagles was NOT referring to you. In fact, your posts were spot on and honest.

[ncbeagler]

not a problem,I respect your frankness, agree alot of over size dogs stick out like a sore thumb.especially when you have your own stand and are constantily measuring up and coming pups or measuring dogs for friends etc.

[Joe Brzezinski]

i think measuring is a issue the 1 gentleman that you talked about i once measured a 16 1/2 bitch out so i don't know about him there are other problems that seemed more apparent when marshalling and observing

Bullboy, or your real name Mr. Todd Servun from Timberline Beagle Club in Prentice,WI ( not sure of the the correct spelling of the last name). I'm sure that you are referring to the 16" bitch that I brought up to be measured at your trial to see exactly how honest you and your partner was at measuring and reading the staff. We'll, you and yours failed miserably since the measurement that you read was 15 1/8". Now since you quoted "i once measured a 16 1/2 bitch out so i don't now about him", this would either make you a very poor measurer or a very dishonest one. I'M BETTING THAT YOU ARE BOTH. Why would you of told me that she measured 15 1/8" when you are quoted as saying that she was 16 1/2". This is the biggest problem in measuring today. If the measures would measure according to the AKC rule book and honestly read what the staff say's we would have a lot less prblems with the oversize hounds running in our trials. Yes, one inch is alot especailly in a large pack. It is not only the height of the dog, but the length and overall size. WE ARE NOT HERE TO CHANGE THE RULES THAT THE AKC SET, BUT ONLY FOLLOW THEM. A 13 1/16" runs in the 15" and a 15 1/16" doesn't run. There's nothing more satisfing as looking at the placing hounds on the stand and to see that they are all true 13" hounds or 15" hounds as a measurer.
So Todd, It is time that you take a stand, take off your skirt and and sign your name on your posts.......... Yours Truely, Joe Brzezinski Breezy Beagles Merrill,WI