GETTING QUALIFIED FOR THE WORLD HUNT

rock crusher · Post by **rock crusher** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:04 am

to fix the cheating you need judges (two)per cast that has no ties to any owners or handlers.nkc is paid dues and needs to address the issue. when playing at home the carolina panthers don't have their reffs and the opposing team doesn't bring their own reffs.nkc needs their own judges and pay them a salary for judging and when a judge shows paritism fire his ass.

Big Dog · Post by **Big Dog** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:40 am

I say leave it like it is, as long as you have humans involved there will always be some cheating. If you don't have a decent dog when you go out to run at the World you are going to get your ass kicked so let them just donate money to help pay the judges. As far as judges are concerned there are just too many dogs and not enough judges to try to get special judges selected. I do agree that judges should run in pairs at the world hunt.

Scott Green · Post by **Scott Green** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:26 am

Here is the funny thing that I just thought of when reading this:

When I was the president at the Ironton club, one of the people on here bitching judged ONE round. It was so disasterous, we wouldnt let him judge anymore at our club. He had no idea of the rules. LOL.

Then to come on here and grip about cheating. I am a firm believer that most people that think they got cheated just do not know the rules.

I think everyone knows that there is buddy judging and cheating that goes on. Like Big Dog said, any time you have humans involved in judging anything there will be some type of problems along the way.

The only way to not get cheated is to 1.) have a dog that CAN dominate a cast 2.) Run on the judges the entire time, which you should do anyway in case of a split. But if I get cheated, the judge will have to look me in the eyes and screw me after I just ran behind him for 1 hour.

Most people that are cheated stand way back, dont want to break a sweat, and talk the entire time and have no idea what is going on in the race. Or they think that because their dog is barking, they are scoring. Or their dog isnt barking, so the rest of the pack sucks.

Run with your dogs and I bet that you will get a better idea of what is really going on. And if you really did get cheated, dont go back to that club and hope you dont have to run your hounds under that judge again.

SilverZuk · Post by **SilverZuk** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:58 am

They should should eliminate LP all together.
That way only the honest formats would be left.
Everyone knows that a dog is not a true champion unless it is an AKC Champion

Kenny VanHoose · Post by **Kenny VanHoose** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:04 pm

Mabey the should have an X amount that are qualifing hunts, that if you place you are qualified.

bradadkins · Post by **bradadkins** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:58 pm

Scott Green,

I agree 100 percent. people should learn the rules..and get active in judging. People get a new apreciation for it after chasing a pack of fast footed dogs for an hour.

Brad

checkmate kennels · Post by **checkmate kennels** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:01 pm

Why get rid of little pack if you dont like it or your dogs are just to good to run it or not good enough than just stay home. I for one love going to the hunts and have made a lot of friends that i would not know otherwise.And i have ran my arha grand champion against several akc champions and came out on top every time.

J.C. Blair · Post by **J.C. Blair** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:10 pm

Whatever happened to goin to trials to have fun and see friends?? Little Pack has its problems, but it will never be perfect. I say leave it as is. I'm gettin' the feeling that anymore I'd rather just go and run dogs and say the heck with trials.

Went to Indiana this weekend, just to run dogs and had awesome running. And Mark Harmon was a witness, I WAS NOT PACKING A GUN TO KILL THEIR RABBITS !! lol

Peace on earth,
Blair

SilverZuk · Post by **SilverZuk** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:06 pm

checkmate kennels wrote:Why get rid of little pack if you dont like it or your dogs are just to good to run it or not good enough than just stay home. I for one love going to the hunts and have made a lot of friends that i would not know otherwise.And i have ran my arha grand champion against several akc champions and came out on top every time.

My response was sarcastic that is why I used the

I've never ran anything other than ARHA LP.
I don't really like the idea of running enclosures.

I enjoy it, but from what I have read and heard think I like a PP style dog better. There are just no PP clubs in my area to find out.

ohlinger.s · Post by **ohlinger.s** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:35 pm

Scott Green wrote:Here is the funny thing that I just thought of when reading this:

When I was the president at the Ironton club, one of the people on here bitching judged ONE round. It was so disasterous, we wouldnt let him judge anymore at our club. He had no idea of the rules. LOL.

Then to come on here and grip about cheating. I am a firm believer that most people that think they got cheated just do not know the rules.

I think everyone knows that there is buddy judging and cheating that goes on. Like Big Dog said, any time you have humans involved in judging anything there will be some type of problems along the way.

The only way to not get cheated is to 1.) have a dog that CAN dominate a cast 2.) Run on the judges the entire time, which you should do anyway in case of a split. But if I get cheated, the judge will have to look me in the eyes and screw me after I just ran behind him for 1 hour.

Most people that are cheated stand way back, dont want to break a sweat, and talk the entire time and have no idea what is going on in the race. Or they think that because their dog is barking, they are scoring. Or their dog isnt barking, so the rest of the pack sucks.

Run with your dogs and I bet that you will get a better idea of what is really going on. And if you really did get cheated, dont go back to that club and hope you dont have to run your hounds under that judge again.

Every time i've had a dog in the cast the judge tells me i have to stand back except the last hunt i went too the judge told me i could follow along to learn the rules. Unless i'm a spectator most judges won't let me follow them is this a reserved right i have as a handler to follow the judge or do i have to listen to him and stand back ?

I've been to 3 arha hunts this year and found one judge that if i get drawn under him again i would rather just withdraw my dog if i withdraw will i get my money back ?

SilverZuk · Post by **SilverZuk** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:02 pm

When I judge I tell the handlers they can stay right with me, but cannot get off to the sides or between me and dogs. If I have someone drifting off, I will ask them to stay together.

I tell them, "We don't to rob a dog of jump points because a handler kicked up a rabbit. Guys, you have to stay together."

DANELL MCKINNEY · Post by **DANELL MCKINNEY** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:54 pm

thats one of the things that bothers me...i like to stay close and it seems that most of the time the other handlers stay back and that leaves me out alone...when i judge i tell everyone to stay together and that they can stay as close as they want but pay attention and dont get in my check area...there is no cheatin here..

checkmate kennels · Post by **checkmate kennels** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:00 pm

Blair is right i was onthe other side of the lake from where he was running and i never heard a gun shot all morning all i heard were dogs hammerin and rabbits running for thier lives. The next time you come down let me know and lunch is on me.

Scott Green · Post by **Scott Green** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:04 pm

ohlinger.s-

If you scratch your dog because you dont want to run under a certain judge, no you will not get your money back.

Most, if not all judges will tell you that you can stay close to them so if the dogs get split on 2 different rabbits, the handlers have the ability to get their dog(s) back into the original rabbit race. I generally ask the judge BEFORE the hounds are cut loose if I can stay close to them in case of a split anyway. It is just a good thing to do, and I want to get my dog back in the race if he is split off the pack as soon as possible and not be a mile away and cant get him back in the race.

Most judges tell you that you can stay on them, as long as you do not get between them and the dogs, but for the handlers to stay together.

But really, there have been so many threads on here about cheating. In all of the field trials I have been to, there have been numerous occasions where I didnt see something exactly like the judge saw it. It wasnt cheating, just a matter of difference of opinion and most of the Little Pack rules leave room for interpretation.

As far as actual cheating, buddy judging, etc., I probably have not seen it happen more than a handful of times out of all of the casts I have seen ran. Maybe 1% if that.

For all of those people that are constantly on here complaining, those that I know about either dont know the rules, dont know dogs, or dont have any idea of how their dogs run or what they "could" be doing when they are barking. That is the reason for most of the griping.

And if you are really getting cheated at a certain club of two, dont go back to that club and give them any more of your time and money! Eventually people will figure it out and the club will get so few entries at each hunt it will slowly die off.

But when you go to a hunt, BIG 5 hunts included, there is a lack of judging and you are not going to get lucky enough to get Paul Prevot, Forrest Kerns, Jay Hershberger, Sammy Wells, Kevin Monroe, etc. to judge your hounds every cast. Some of these newer (and older) judges are going to make mistakes, or just not be able to stay on the dogs the entire time and the only check they miss might be your dog. That is the way it goes, but most judges are out there trying to do the best they can and I think that if they make mistakes they need to be taught the right way and not criticized on the internet.

JMO

beagler80 · Post by **beagler80** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:08 pm

Hey Mark it's funny that you didn't offer to buy me lunch when I seen you up there in July? Must be because I'm not a part of the maffia