Measuring Hounds

[SilverZuk]

Zuk, you mention your dogs racing but you fail to mention a LP dog skirts, swings, and cuts. You might try a PP dog that has some more line control and you would probably see the same thing you are seeing in those slower dogs you are in search of.

Just because they are fast doesn't mean they skirt/slash/cut.
I have one that is a 9 out 10 on speed, he runs a clean line.
It is the dogs that are trying to get to the front around him that are cutting/skirting. I have another that will skirt and cut.

I would love to try PP trials. What I have heard it is the some bunch of guys and dogs from LP. It just eliminated the really rough dogs.

Back to the size issue:
I could easily forsee a "Harehound Class" or "Harehound Format" with a limit over 15"
The guys up north say they love the long legged dogs for running all day and fording through deep snow. It is a no brainer for them.

[island ridge hounds]

ok, say they, who ever they is change the height limit to sixteen inches.
how long will it take before folks are running seventeen and eighteen inch
hounds their is always someone pushing the limit and thats just the competitive nature for sportsmen. i think it can be just as competitive using fifteen inch hounds. we should go to stockcar racing rules you know
if someone feels theres a problem they'll disassemble a car you can't take a dog apart but you can measure him and take blood and see what
type a fuel he's on.

[FLABSLAB]

I don't care if a dog is 20 inches, has no tail and one eye, three legs and is pink as long as he can BRING THE RABBIT BACK TO MY GUN! All that other "rule" stuff is fine I guess, but the reason I have beagles is to hunt, and it sure sucks if they won't do thier part. It does me no good if the beagle is 14 inches, perfect teeth, perfect tail length, brings me my slippers every night ect if the dog won't hunt. To be perfectly honest, if it weren't for my wife there's two beagles in my kennel who would NOT be there tomorrow. I'd give em away or cull em, but they wouldn't stay. Guess what? They're also the two weakest hunters. That sums it up.

[taylorskennels]

How does that old saying go. If you can't run with the big dogs leave em on the porch

[Pine Mt Beagles]

BOB
I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ARE COMMING FROM I HAVE HAD A STAND FOR OVER 20 YEARS I DON'T HAVE A DOG IN MY KENNEL THAT IS OVER BUT IT'S KINDA HARD ,,TO TELL A RABBIT, HUNTER THAT YOU SEEN IN THE FIELD AND TOLD TO COME TO THE CLUB AND RUN WITH THE SOME MORE BEAGLERS .. WELL HE PAY'S TO JOIN THE CLUB PAY'S TO REGISTER HIS DOG AND PAY'S AN ENTRY FEE.GOES OUT AND JUST HAPPENS TO GET TO THE FINAL ROUND .AND SOME ONE COMES UP HOLDING A 15 INCH HOUND LOOKS AT THE HUNTER'S DOG AND SAY'S WELL HE MIGHT BE A GOOD DOG HE GOT THIS FAR ,AND HE IS BIGGER THAN MY DOG HE MUST BE OVER.SO HE IS MEASURED OUT.THE HUNTER SAY'S NOW WHAT'S WRONG SO YOU SAY,,,,, .SORRY BUT YOUR DOG IS TO BIG.AND HE SAY'S WHAT THA$$$$$HE WASN'T TO BIG WHEN I PAID MY CLUB DUE'S AND NOT TO BIG WHEN I GIVE MY MONEY TO REGISTER HIM ,OR WHEN I PAID TO ENTER HIM , TO SAY THE LEAST HE WILL BE DISAPPOINTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KEEP'EM RUNNING
PINE MT BEAGLES

[Hunter]

Hey Island,
These hounds have been bred alot longer than any of us reading this have been around and my thought is that for all that time they were bred with 16" being ok. So their DNA is tuned into that. NOT JUST TO TRY AND GET A FEW BIGGER DOGS IN AND THAN IN A FEW YEARS RAISE THE STANDARD AGAIN.

Again, I am looking for the logic behind America to change the standard of the breed. Someone said the AKC will accept hounds from the CKC and KC but I went looking and they will accept from quite a few different registries. They do this knowing that at least some of these consider breed standard to be 16".

I also found US census said that only 2% of people 17 and over graduated from high school in 1870. This would be close to the time frame for those who came up with the 15" breed standard rule. Have you ever considered this? So basically we have a few guys that are screaming it is THE RULES how would you feel if we scratched the rules completely and take a group of 6 graders of today that love dogs and put them in a room and say make us some rules to run trials with. I would be willing to consider that these 6 graders are above the intellectual level as the men of 130 years ago...how willing would you still be to scream but it is the rules knowing the who made them and the degree of their education?
jmo, Hunter

[dan brink]

i have this post and have a question for the guys wanting the outlaw hounds most you state if my dog can,t beat a dog a inch or 2 taller i don,t want him, let put to you a another way proof you don,t have cheat to win because if you in over size thats what you doing. keep your good hounds to hunt ,proof you can win legal, why would copy anything from across the big pond if you are talking about england they are even allowed to run fox with hounds anymore, i think will stay here

[APFII]

Hey Island,
These hounds have been bred alot longer than any of us reading this have been around and my thought is that for all that time they were bred with 16" being ok. So their DNA is tuned into that. NOT JUST TO TRY AND GET A FEW BIGGER DOGS IN AND THAN IN A FEW YEARS RAISE THE STANDARD AGAIN.

Again, I am looking for the logic behind America to change the standard of the breed. Someone said the AKC will accept hounds from the CKC and KC but I went looking and they will accept from quite a few different registries. They do this knowing that at least some of these consider breed standard to be 16".

I also found US census said that only 2% of people 17 and over graduated from high school in 1870. This would be close to the time frame for those who came up with the 15" breed standard rule. Have you ever considered this? So basically we have a few guys that are screaming it is THE RULES how would you feel if we scratched the rules completely and take a group of 6 graders of today that love dogs and put them in a room and say make us some rules to run trials with. I would be willing to consider that these 6 graders are above the intellectual level as the men of 130 years ago...how willing would you still be to scream but it is the rules knowing the who made them and the degree of their education?
jmo, Hunter

Our ancesters may have had the formal education level of six graders but to say that they did not have a high inteligence level is just wrong ,and insulting.

[SilverZuk]

TO TELL A RABBIT, HUNTER THAT YOU SEEN IN THE FIELD AND TOLD TO COME TO THE CLUB AND RUN...

Some one should have given the guy the rule book along the way or explained the rules. The 15" rule is somehting everyone in the sprot learns shortly after getting into it.

It was implied to me by several people that it was an unspoken rule not to ask to have a hound measured. I have people come up to me on occassion and say, "I'd never ask to measure hound. I don't care if it was 17", I wouldn't measure it." Then they ask, "Would you measure ask to measure a hound?"
My response is "Yes".

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

I am 1 of those guys , who cares? Cant be scared all your life zuk

[SilverZuk]

These hounds have been bred alot longer ...

Was ARHA founded in 1870 or whenever the standards you are referring to were written?

Your discussion keeps swaying back and forth between what is done in England and what is done in U.S. Trial formats.
We are talking about trial formats and measuring and you are talking about an english breed standard written in the 1800's.

Every trial format has been created in "recent times". The people who created the rules to go along with these formats applied what they felt was ideal for the format at that time. Rules are modified once they realize they have a problem. They selected 15" as the maximum height. They could have easily selected 14" or 16", they did not.
Someone along the line came to the conclusion that 15" was a maximum height for a beagle. More than likely the others followed suit because they agreed.

Some states have laws running dogs over a specific height. So you think the state researched height vs. effectiveness in rabbit dogs? No, they probably had a sportsman group help them with law is how 15" got there.

15" is the currently accepted maximum height breed standard in America.
I can't give you a history lesson of why, but it is.

Bottom line is that ARHA LP maximum height is 15".
Running a dog over 15" is taking a risk of measuring out.
Yes, there are inconsistencies in the way dogs are measured.
The rule is there, the policing is there, and the enforcement is there.

[SilverZuk]

I am 1 of those guys , who cares? Cant be scared all your life zuk

Scared of what?
Running against a 16" or 17" hound?

If the rules would change to allow larger dogs, I would probably try to get one pushing the limits of the new rule to take every advantage I could.

Good or bad, I live in a black and white world. I get educated on what I am getting into, come up with a plan, apply it, and adjust. Field trials are pretty easy to learn about. Read the rules, ask questions, and get a good understanding of them. Stick within the rules and you have nothing to worry about (supposedly).

[ice]

if the arha would change it to 16 inch dogs ,the guys that are cheating now running the dogs over 15 inch's , they would cheat and run dogs over 16 inch, once a cheater always a cheater

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

I am 1 of those guys , who cares? Cant be scared all your life zuk

Scared of what?
Running against a 16" or 17" hound?

If the rules would change to allow larger dogs, I would probably try to get one pushing the limits of the new rule to take every advantage I could.

Good or bad, I live in a black and white world. I get educated on what I am getting into, come up with a plan, apply it, and adjust. Field trials are pretty easy to learn about. Read the rules, ask questions, and get a good understanding of them. Stick within the rules and you have nothing to worry about (supposedly).

I guess that didnt sound right sorry......I just dont mind big hounds as bad as others.

[SilverZuk]

I don't mind them either, feed what you want, run what you want.
Just understand by running a big hound that you might be measured out some day. I prefer not to take that risk.
I run against big hounds about every weekend.
I have only asked for a hound to be measured once, it was 16.5".