The American Beagler Forum

When you are hunting in a big area with thck cover, I mean real thick cover and acres of it, all you have for a shooting lane is a logging road or an old fire break. You have medium speed, close to the line hounds that are running steady with very few checks. There are plenty of rabbits but they don't have to come out because of the cover.

QUESTION: Do you need faster dogs or do you need to add a couple more dogs that run the same speed To pressure the rabbits into coming out to the gun?

Thanks for your answers, Joe

Faster dogs. That's one of the few reasons I run faster dogs. Adding more med. speed dogs won't help at all. You need to put more pressure on them rabbits to get them to come out.

Example, we hunted down in the swamps of SE VA this past Sat. and the week before some guys had hunted it all day w/ a dozen med. speed dogs. They shot 1 rabbit. I took 5 of my fastest dogs down and we shot 3 by 10:30 a.m. Owner said it was b/c the other dogs didn't get them out of the swamps, cutovers, and pine thickets. Knowing what I know, it's b/ the rabbit wasn't as pressured.

We had a few checks, but other than one here or there, my dogs really put the heat on them bunnies. If you've got dogs that are fast and have a lot of checks though, you'd be better off sticking to solid med. speed hounds, IMO.

Doesnt matter.

We hunt nothing but THICK cutover, and 1000's of acres of it. As long as you have dogs that will push the rabbit, you will get shots. We run nothing but med speed, line control dogs. usually no more than 4-6 dogs at a time.

Having said that, you CANNOT stand on the road and wait for them to cross. Get in the bushes and wait and watch. We kill plenty (not a ton, but plenty) with limited people. As long as you can see 10 yards, you'll see them at some point.

The key is standing STILL!!!! dont move, dont talk and they will come by you, and usually not in a super hurry. We (2 of us) hunted for 4 1/2 hours on saturday in 25-30 mph wind.... Jumped 5, killed 2, missed 2. And I'm talking THICK Cutover. With one or two more people, we would have killed all 5, and probably jumped more.

If you wanna stand on the road, get faster dogs, but expect more breakdowns. Our dogs do just fine in cutover. Actually we have some aweful nice runs in there, even in bad weather. Had one sat that circled atleast 6 times (i missed him twice) before we quit for the day

I think you are running a doe rabbit that may be the problem of staying in the cover, faster dog can put to much pressure on the bunnies and they go to holes or the dogs just loose them, if you run faster dog you need more rabbits were you hunt when they loose the bunny they find another
i have only seen a few fast dogs that can track a rabbit most loose and over run and the dogs spend more time looking than running sure they put pressure on the bunny's but if you go to the places i hunt there is not alot of rabbits and when you find one i want them to run him till i can get a shot.
Daryn

Daryn, I agree with you I was running 3 medium speed hounds in an area like I described in my original question. My hunting buddy asked if faster dogs wouldn't push them out of the cover quicker. I told him we could add a couple more hounds of the same speed and that would help and it did.

Burbba, I disagree with you. When you are running just three med. speed dogs and add 2 or 3 more hounds of the same speed your race will pick up.

Having said that you CAN stand on the road and wait for them to cross. I don't want to get in the bushes that's why I have dogs, and if it doesn't matter why do people hunt packs of 5 and more dogs?

Me and my buddies kill plenty of rabbits too and most of the guys I hunt with know how to stand still when you hunt, but that wasn't the question anyway.

I do believe you are right about the faster dogs. They will breakdown more.

Thanks for the answers,....Joe

I was in Indania hunting at a strip mine that was Thick,no shooting lanes but the roads,we seen plenty of Rabbits because we were running faster hounds. Up the road some guys were running med speed hounds and I never seen 1 rabbit pushed out of the thicket. Our hounds had some break downs but the ground had alot of water standing,the slow hounds broke down to. Give me a faster hound for hunting-speed kills.

I've heard this crazy statement for 30 years that faster dogs loose it more and push rabbits to a hole like the medium speed dogs don't put any in a hole. Any of you guys that think so just come and try it against my hounds. I've owned or run against every speed of dog known and day in and day out a med-fast dog with good control will put more rabbits in your vest than some hound running along just following scent with no desire to push the rabbit. I once saw a "medium speed CONTROL" dog bark 23 times before he moved one foot. Now I am not at all saying you guy's dogs are like this but I've stood out there freezing my fingers off waiting on Mr. Control to ease his rabbit around to me and, never again. Go with your medium speeders one day and go with med-fast the next day with the same conditions and rabbit population and see the difference like I have and I've sold pups and dogs to about all of those guys.

John Lear wrote:I've heard this crazy statement for 30 years that faster dogs loose it more and push rabbits to a hole like the medium speed dogs don't put any in a hole. Any of you guys that think so just come and try it against my hounds. I've owned or run against every speed of dog known and day in and day out a med-fast dog with good control will put more rabbits in your vest than some hound running along just following scent with no desire to push the rabbit. I once saw a "medium speed CONTROL" dog bark 23 times before he moved one foot. Now I am not at all saying you guy's dogs are like this but I've stood out there freezing my fingers off waiting on Mr. Control to ease his rabbit around to me and, never again. Go with your medium speeders one day and go with med-fast the next day with the same conditions and rabbit population and see the difference like I have and I've sold pups and dogs to about all of those guys.

Agree for the most part, and while I run an upper med/fast pack like you, there are times when a solid med. speed pack has advantages over us, e.g., the rabbit most often won't be running as fast when it comes by b/c the pressure isn't as heavy. With that being said, I still prefer hard hitting, excellent line control upper med./fast running dogs.

I do know this you will walk that whole 1000 acres with faster dogs and not always kill any more than with medium speed. Faster dogs tend to over run and compinsate for that by hunting forward and jumping another rabbit. See it alot in Large Pack trials and ARHA little pack.

Large pack trials - generally dogs that are use to running in a pen and know they will eventually come across another track. Little Pack dogs "generally" are wanted to not to come back to the point of loss and the rougher the better I have heard some of them say. Lets compare apples to apples not apples to anything in the fruit category. I said dogs that are med-fast WITH control. I don't know where this guy that is going to walk all over 1000 acres is from but I'm not walking that much and never have.

Preach it John!!!!!! Im with you.

[quote]QUESTION: Do you need faster dogs or do you need to add a couple more dogs that run the same speed To pressure the rabbits into coming out to the gun?


Why did you ask the question if you already had your own answer(Think about it!)

I have owned dogs for over 30 years.I have hunted with AKC midwest field champions.ARHA little pack word winners etc.Nice dogs some good gun dogs .On the flip side of that coin.My 70 year old father hunts mostly by himself or with me and my son.His dogs are medium speed dogs maybe a 6. His dogs are hunted in all conditions and all different terrain.His dogs do the job just as well and sometimes better than the above mentioned hounds.In my opinion you can kill plenty of rabbits with medium speed dogs as well and not freeze your end off while your doing it.It's all about prefrence.Fast dogs suit some people medium dogs suit some. I like mine faster thats just me.My dad likes them medium thats him. To me there are good dogs in both formats medium and fast.Also potlickers in both as well.

Good post, mud. I couldn't agree more.

Not to step on anyones toes guys but it's not all about the dog . I've hunted with people who didn't seem to understand a great deal about how to get a shot at the rabbit MYSELF INCLUDED but I'm still learning
I've also hunted with people who are what I consider old time all around mountian men and their dogs be all shapes , sizes and colors nothing over 15 though . These people have probably forgotten more about hunting than most will ever know . I went hunting with one of these guys this year he killed his 50th rabbit that day . Don't get me wrong it's wonderful to have great dogs but some of these old timers know more about jumping a rabbit than many dogs imo . PLEASE don't take offence to my post . Could be worse, " I could be bragging on myself"

Buddy