I'm no expert but it seems to me like there is a difference in the type of dogs that win between the two registrys. I know there are dogs that do well in both and I am aware that many of the winning UKC dogs came from AKC show bloodlines.
Having said that, is there a difference in a dog that is capable of winning the big shows in AKC compared to the UKC National and World Champions?
AKC show beagles vs. UKC show beagles
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
Tom,
My wife and I currently own this years opposite sex world show champion along with the registered female winner at the world show.
Look at Chelsy and Lady on our webpage and you make the determination.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeuq9zn/
I believe if we decide to push either one of these hounds they could win their fair share in the AKC. As far as winning the big one, I would like to think they could.
My wife and I currently own this years opposite sex world show champion along with the registered female winner at the world show.
Look at Chelsy and Lady on our webpage and you make the determination.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeuq9zn/
I believe if we decide to push either one of these hounds they could win their fair share in the AKC. As far as winning the big one, I would like to think they could.
WVBILL
Nice very Nice!!!!!!!! and yes they should be able to Win at the big shows in both but Will they????? probably not owner handled...!!!!!
Not in AKC
Now if you were to HIRE a profesional handler you would have a LOT better Chance......
Now as to to the TYPE
As far a Difference YES thier is a Difference it depends on the MO and the Shows LOL
The AKC has thier little Clicks and alot of the Wins Depends on the judges Preferences that Season
The Dogs at this time seem to have gone more toward the lighter Boned Dogs again in the North and the big Flashy heads in the east!!!!!
But as a General Rule YES thier Is a difference in type.
The AKC Judges tend to go more for the Big Blocky heads, Overly Flewed, Highly Over angulated,Short Stocky Chesty Type (At this time) Real Flashy High Steppin (prancin) type Dog!!!! Oh And NEVER EVER let your Dog put its head Down Nose to the ground Seems that will get you put to the back of the line pretty Fast... As long as the Dogs SIDE movement looks pretty Good then they stand a better chance.....
Oh Well now ya Went and Got me Started!!!!!!!!!
As far as A diffence YES there is Should not be but YES!!!!!
NOW all that being Said (may be awhile before I place a dog again) LOL
There are Some VERY Good Judges in AKC it is just like Field trialing You have to find those Judges that like your TYPE of dog and show under them you Will Soon See what judges Dont like your type and avoid them!!!!
Am I not Right Leah ? Cindy?
Now all that being Said you will See a lot of the AKC champion Dogs Showing in the UKC ring also. So the Competition is getting Harder but i also feel that the UKC judges do a very good job on Selecting those Dogs that will meet the standard I have never Seen a AKC judge Get on their hands and knees Looking at a Dog Comming And Going or actually Telling you To let the Dog have its head let it put its head Down so that they can get a Good look at the Topline the way it is supposed to be....or NOT stacking your Dog as it enters the Ring so that they can See What the dog really looks like!!! AND UKC is just a lot fairer once you take away the profesional handler.....It can get real Frustrating also When you see a person at the Show Who has NEVER owned a beagle showing a beagle Or when you see the Winning Dogs handler out the night before With the judge or you find out After the fact that the Handler actually Apprenticed under the judge at that Show!!!! These are the Little things that i have problems with in AKC it aint always about the Dog!!!!!!!!!
Definatley get those UKC Dogs in the Ring at the AKC shows if they start placing maybe things will come around!!!!!!
NOW this is just ALL MY OPINION there are those that Will disagree but i have Seen it Over the last 8 years or So.
It can get VERY frustrating I dont mind losing to a GOOD dog it is just the judges opinions as to What a good Dog is that i have a problem with!!!!!
TC
(Ok Flame suit on! Have at it)
Nice very Nice!!!!!!!! and yes they should be able to Win at the big shows in both but Will they????? probably not owner handled...!!!!!
Not in AKC
Now if you were to HIRE a profesional handler you would have a LOT better Chance......
Now as to to the TYPE
As far a Difference YES thier is a Difference it depends on the MO and the Shows LOL
The AKC has thier little Clicks and alot of the Wins Depends on the judges Preferences that Season
The Dogs at this time seem to have gone more toward the lighter Boned Dogs again in the North and the big Flashy heads in the east!!!!!
But as a General Rule YES thier Is a difference in type.
The AKC Judges tend to go more for the Big Blocky heads, Overly Flewed, Highly Over angulated,Short Stocky Chesty Type (At this time) Real Flashy High Steppin (prancin) type Dog!!!! Oh And NEVER EVER let your Dog put its head Down Nose to the ground Seems that will get you put to the back of the line pretty Fast... As long as the Dogs SIDE movement looks pretty Good then they stand a better chance.....
Oh Well now ya Went and Got me Started!!!!!!!!!
As far as A diffence YES there is Should not be but YES!!!!!
NOW all that being Said (may be awhile before I place a dog again) LOL
There are Some VERY Good Judges in AKC it is just like Field trialing You have to find those Judges that like your TYPE of dog and show under them you Will Soon See what judges Dont like your type and avoid them!!!!
Am I not Right Leah ? Cindy?
Now all that being Said you will See a lot of the AKC champion Dogs Showing in the UKC ring also. So the Competition is getting Harder but i also feel that the UKC judges do a very good job on Selecting those Dogs that will meet the standard I have never Seen a AKC judge Get on their hands and knees Looking at a Dog Comming And Going or actually Telling you To let the Dog have its head let it put its head Down so that they can get a Good look at the Topline the way it is supposed to be....or NOT stacking your Dog as it enters the Ring so that they can See What the dog really looks like!!! AND UKC is just a lot fairer once you take away the profesional handler.....It can get real Frustrating also When you see a person at the Show Who has NEVER owned a beagle showing a beagle Or when you see the Winning Dogs handler out the night before With the judge or you find out After the fact that the Handler actually Apprenticed under the judge at that Show!!!! These are the Little things that i have problems with in AKC it aint always about the Dog!!!!!!!!!
Definatley get those UKC Dogs in the Ring at the AKC shows if they start placing maybe things will come around!!!!!!
NOW this is just ALL MY OPINION there are those that Will disagree but i have Seen it Over the last 8 years or So.
It can get VERY frustrating I dont mind losing to a GOOD dog it is just the judges opinions as to What a good Dog is that i have a problem with!!!!!
TC
(Ok Flame suit on! Have at it)
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be
akc vs ukc
You guys sure dont give me confidence in dipping my toes in this world. If it werent for the fact that I used to show horses and know exactly what your talking about, I would probably change my mind. Explain to me why the professional handler is such an issue?
Patch Addict
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Larry G
Bill, I have some pups that have Echo Run in them like yours. I just sold 2 of them to a man in California (I am in NC) and he is going to show and hunt/trial them. Mine are down from Ch. Shaw's Spirit of the Chase. I'm keeping a couple to start myself and I'm eager to see how well they do.
To those of you who keep whining that you can't buy good show blood to cross into your stock, I really don't want to hear it because I posted one on here FOR FREE with no takers and was finally able to place him in a good home, and the pups were sold for about what you would spend at the dog pound.
Now I have a good, proven stud dog, aggressive breeder and solid Ch. pedigree, except for the dam, who was never shown... nice 13 inch male, real nice... now let's see if anyone will pry themselves away from their keyboard and come and get him.... or just keep whining.
To those of you who keep whining that you can't buy good show blood to cross into your stock, I really don't want to hear it because I posted one on here FOR FREE with no takers and was finally able to place him in a good home, and the pups were sold for about what you would spend at the dog pound.
Now I have a good, proven stud dog, aggressive breeder and solid Ch. pedigree, except for the dam, who was never shown... nice 13 inch male, real nice... now let's see if anyone will pry themselves away from their keyboard and come and get him.... or just keep whining.
Tiffinis,
You have to start somewhere. It is hard to start on the top. You have to work your way up. There are judges out there that will judge the dog and not the handler.
SilverZuk,
You like the way she looks......... then come run with her. You will like her that much more. She can get the job done. I really like that little girl.
I can not wait to breed her in the next few months. I hope she passes her traits on to her puppies.
Larry,
Both Lady and Chelsy are in the whelping box(s). Lady had 5 two weeks ago and Chelsy has 3 that are a week old. We crossed both back to some Mark V Ace in the hole blood. Next time we will probably go down a little different road.
I have more to learn about the Echo Run stuff. I need to set down and research the dogs in the pedigree like I did with my other hounds. I know enough to be deadly. LOL
You have to start somewhere. It is hard to start on the top. You have to work your way up. There are judges out there that will judge the dog and not the handler.
SilverZuk,
You like the way she looks......... then come run with her. You will like her that much more. She can get the job done. I really like that little girl.
I can not wait to breed her in the next few months. I hope she passes her traits on to her puppies.
Larry,
Both Lady and Chelsy are in the whelping box(s). Lady had 5 two weeks ago and Chelsy has 3 that are a week old. We crossed both back to some Mark V Ace in the hole blood. Next time we will probably go down a little different road.
I have more to learn about the Echo Run stuff. I need to set down and research the dogs in the pedigree like I did with my other hounds. I know enough to be deadly. LOL
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Larry G
This little fella and his brother are going to Ca., and if they run like I think they will, the new owner will need some space on the mantle for the hardware.
This bitch is bred to a male with one licensed win in SPO and he has never failed to finish first on the bench...about 5 times I believe. She has placed third in the only field trial she ran in and she does it right. Pups should be the kind those of us wanting both looks and performance are after.
This bitch is bred to a male with one licensed win in SPO and he has never failed to finish first on the bench...about 5 times I believe. She has placed third in the only field trial she ran in and she does it right. Pups should be the kind those of us wanting both looks and performance are after.
akc vs ukc
Hey Larry, was that free dog Lemon and white??
Still saving my pennies, I think I may be on to something.......
Still saving my pennies, I think I may be on to something.......
Patch Addict
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Larry G
Re: akc vs ukc
No but you can dye him any color you wanttiffinis wrote:Hey Larry, was that free dog Lemon and white??
Still saving my pennies, I think I may be on to something.......
Cindy does that all the time 
WVBILL Wrote
Tiff
Wvbill is right though You have to get your Feet wet I would start in the UKC ring though get a little bettter handle on the whole show Deal and a lot more fun to
Well Larry Sure wish it was a better Time I would definatley Come get the pup!!!!
You can Sure see the Echo Run and Shaw Dogs in a line caint ya!!!
Then you Add some of the Applegate/Highgate stuff like Vijam Peter the Great and Boogie Boy Baxter along with the hunt......
We have a couple crosses of Spirit of the chase and Micky likes it from the Shaws and Eho Run Kindred Spirit also
Take a look at these peds and see what ya think
http://home.earthlink.net/~tjcrewse/id16.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~tjcrewse/id18.html
Why???? Why do ya have to start at the bottom shouldnt it be about the Dog???? It shouldnt matter WHO you Are!!! oh but we all know it Does!!!You have to start somewhere. It is hard to start on the top. You have to work your way up. There are judges out there that will judge the dog and not the handler.
Tiff
Wvbill is right though You have to get your Feet wet I would start in the UKC ring though get a little bettter handle on the whole show Deal and a lot more fun to
Well Larry Sure wish it was a better Time I would definatley Come get the pup!!!!
You can Sure see the Echo Run and Shaw Dogs in a line caint ya!!!
Then you Add some of the Applegate/Highgate stuff like Vijam Peter the Great and Boogie Boy Baxter along with the hunt......
We have a couple crosses of Spirit of the chase and Micky likes it from the Shaws and Eho Run Kindred Spirit also
Take a look at these peds and see what ya think
http://home.earthlink.net/~tjcrewse/id16.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~tjcrewse/id18.html
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be
TC,
I really didn't mean it that context but I can see where you are coming from.
I meant it is hard to win the big show your first show. You need to understand how the hound is going to react and what you could be doing in the ring to make the hound look bad. I believe if you are confident and comfortable with your hound, it will perform as trained.
I got to admit it would be awesome to win a major show the very first time out. It would be hard to beat that. Kinda killing a monster buck for your very first time out deer hunting.
I am by far a big show person. But I can tell you I have learned somethings that I was doing that made my hounds appear to have faults when they really didnt. Thank goodness I had judges that realized it then later on explained to me why they did what they did. I am alot more comfortable showing my hounds.
I really didn't mean it that context but I can see where you are coming from.
I meant it is hard to win the big show your first show. You need to understand how the hound is going to react and what you could be doing in the ring to make the hound look bad. I believe if you are confident and comfortable with your hound, it will perform as trained.
I got to admit it would be awesome to win a major show the very first time out. It would be hard to beat that. Kinda killing a monster buck for your very first time out deer hunting.
I am by far a big show person. But I can tell you I have learned somethings that I was doing that made my hounds appear to have faults when they really didnt. Thank goodness I had judges that realized it then later on explained to me why they did what they did. I am alot more comfortable showing my hounds.
akc vs ukc
Ok... I am a sponge...tell me where to start doing homework. If I practice with my poor dogs, that will give me handling practice....right?
Think my 7 year old 103 lb chocolate will appreciate the subtleties of learning how to stack?
Think my 7 year old 103 lb chocolate will appreciate the subtleties of learning how to stack?
Patch Addict
Boy Howdy My Dogs probably Would have placed a lot better over the years if i had of learned what I was doing wrong Sooner LOLI am by far a big show person. But I can tell you I have learned somethings that I was doing that made my hounds appear to have faults when they really didnt. Thank goodness I had judges that realized it then later on explained to me why they did what they did. I am alot more comfortable showing my hounds.
Like Runnin My Big Mouth
This is where i was getting at about the proffesional handlers They know this stuff Where we as novice or just hound folks wouldnt know...OR have to learn the hard way By paying our Dues as i was once told...
All in all though i do have a good time at the shows and i dont have a problem getting beat by a better dog its just getting beat by the handlers that I dont agree with....its all about playing the Game...
Which is to bad because after all aint it supposed to be about the dogs???
Oh man aint nuthin Like that feelin is there?I got to admit it would be awesome to win a major show the very first time out. It would be hard to beat that. Kinda killing a monster buck for your very first time out deer hunting.
But can sure be a let down when all ya get the next dozen times out is that little red ribbon
Tiff Dont let all this Discourage you and I am Sorry for putting such a negative attitude into all this!!! just Go!! Try to have fun!! meet the folks
There are some VERY nice Folks out there and it can be fun it will be what you make of it!!!
Educational to say the least
We wont ever be able to change it by sittin around yakin about it and Who knows maybe the next Parker or PD or Spirit of the Chase is just sittin out there waitin to be seen
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be
akc vs ukc
I am not discouraged (too bullheaded for that), but does make me think about a plan of action so to speak. I am really looking forward to just being around other dog people more then anything. At this point in my life I just want to do something for ME and have fun at it.
Like I said before, I used to show horses, so I know what it can be like competing. My downfall there, was my folks didnt have the money to buy the high end horses, tack, trainers, handlers etc. I competed against girls (and an occasional guy) that had 5 digit horses that they never even took a brush to. I worked my butt off in showmanship (99% grooming, 1% handling) with a grade horse and never left the ring without a ribbon.
Like I said before, I used to show horses, so I know what it can be like competing. My downfall there, was my folks didnt have the money to buy the high end horses, tack, trainers, handlers etc. I competed against girls (and an occasional guy) that had 5 digit horses that they never even took a brush to. I worked my butt off in showmanship (99% grooming, 1% handling) with a grade horse and never left the ring without a ribbon.
Patch Addict