The American Beagler Forum

I've been having some rotten luck with my hounds lately. I just had my first litter last year - major goal was something remotely show quality with tons of hunt. Four of the six pups in that litter showed better than average conformation potential. I figured they'd have a good shot in the UKC shows. These pups are 8 mos. now and they've gone downhill The dam was Branko/Indian Hills bred and the sire was bred on FC Blue Banks Pleaser/Ace In The Hole & also went back to some Gay breeding. Didn't have the nicest head but had very good structure/angulation.
At 8 mos, yes, they show excellent potential in the field, which I'm relieved about, but they have horrible chests, bone structure that was once thick has thinned out considerably, the heads on two are ok, but of course, the pup I kept does nto ahve as nice of a head as he did as a pup. He's not horrbile, but I thought I could do so much better ...
I just bred my second litter in April and it was VERY dissapointing. Only one out of 5 pups has any dual purpose potential and he has a *very* inhibited, shy personality The ONLY one in either litter to have that sort of disposition but he has the nicest head/structure I've produced so far. Figures!
Up until now, I've been looking at field line hounds bred for looks & hunt. I've always wanted a show quality pup to improve on my lines. Right now that idea seems better every minute, but I have one reservation about going to a show breeder. Hence, my question for the board. Do show breeders normally sell pups to field breeders looking to improve their lines but may not be able to show the pup?
Thanks ...

Beagled1 wrote:I've been looking at field line hounds bred for looks & hunt. I've always wanted a show quality pup to improve on my lines. Right now that idea seems better every minute, but I have one reservation about going to a show breeder. Hence, my question for the board. Do show breeders normally sell pups to field breeders looking to improve their lines but may not be able to show the pup?
Thanks ...

Well, certainly a show breeder is not going to send you his or her best puppy if you don't plan to show it but, I see no reason you cannot get a nice well bred puppy from someone. I sell the majority of mine as pets because its just easier than dealing with homes who expect perfection. I have some lovely dogs that could easily be champions just living on someones couch ;-) So, I would say yes! you can buy one. Just like its not easy to breed a field champion from 2 show dogs its most likely not going to be possible to breed a show champion from 2 field bred dogs. A nice blend should be possible.

Leah Bertagnolli
Windkist beagles
http://www.windkist-utah.com

you need to get in touch with don and dave mcvay of sundown kennels there are doing a fine job of combing conformation and hunting.

Matt Wilson wrote:you need to get in touch with don and dave mcvay of sundown kennels there are doing a fine job of combing conformation and hunting.

Yes! they are doing a great Job and probably have a lot of insight into what crosses with what ;-)

Leah

I second that (check with the McVays).
And btw, I would be interested in helping you find a nice puppy sometime. I really appreciate the fact that you are honest about your dogs and not kennel blind!

THANKS for the insight Makes me feel much better! Of course, I'd never expect ANY breeder (field or show) to sell me thier best hound, only for me to not show it to a championship. I wouldn't do that if I was in their shoes. Actually, what I was looking for was more like something bordering on pet quality, where the hound still had correct conformation, and was a good compliment for the faults in my line (like those short chests... yuk) but it wouldn't be a shame if I wasn't able to show her.
At the moment, the main focus is on hunt and improving the conformation of the hounds. I have a feeling I'll never get what I want by just doing crosses of well built field lines. Especially since I've been doing outcrosses, and the two basic lines I'm working with tend to be good producers - but throw different "looks".
I've just very recently contacted Don of Sundown Kennels; I have heard more than once he was the man to go to for structure/hunt. At the moment, he doesn't have what I was looking for (no females for sale). But I do like his hounds and will probably check back with him.
Anyone know of someone who may be able to help me out? I'd be looking for a pup or young towards the end of this month.
Thanks again! Everyone is SO incredibly helpful here!
~Christine

Christine

At the moment, the main focus is on hunt and improving the conformation of the hounds. I have a feeling I'll never get what I want by just doing crosses of well built field lines

Well we know the feeling but hang in there it can be done LOL
This is something that we have been striving For for over 8 years now Trying to breed the best hunting Show dog we can LOL Or the best looking huntin Dog whichever you prefer....
Well we feel that we are going in the right direction with this last litter we had
the Dam is a UKC show Champion with as much Hunt as we could ask for she is a Brush Grubbin Go all day med Speed with great line control and the conformation to match. from a cross of hunt and show lines our third cross Hunt to Show, then back to Show, then back to Hunt! Keeping the best conformation out of each litter.
We curently have 2 left for sale from this Cross 1 male and one female the female will more than likely Stay a 13" the male will more than likely be in the 14" range.
Not tryin to toot our own horn but we feel very good about this cross and would love to get one of the pups in a Hunt Show Home. We are keeping 3 for ourselves and may have another for sale in the future.
Now maybe we can get Cindy and Leah to do a evaluation on em to see what they think also.
These Pups are 8 weeks old in these photos
MALE





FEMALE





These pups are 3/4 field bred dogs buy the way..

TC wrote:Christine

At the moment, the main focus is on hunt and improving the conformation of the hounds. I have a feeling I'll never get what I want by just doing crosses of well built field lines

quote]

Just a quick look at them. I like their nice hard toplines and front construction. Overall just looking at them by these pictures the bitch puppy is more balanced than the dog. Both are a little hocky right now but, that can change. Lets seem again at 16 weeks

leah

Hence, my question for the board. Do show breeders normally sell
pups to field breeders looking to improve their lines but may not be able
to show the pup?

Short answer is yes.
The long answer is that you would probablly end up with a "pet quality" pup
from a "show quality" litter.

Even those of us that show & breed show quality Beagles will go outside
our own dogs to find what we want in a stud dog more often than not.

Since you already have a nice field bitch, my suggestion is to not buy a puppy
that may or may not work out, but instead just pay a stud fee and breed
to the best you can find.

Edit to add:
A reality in breeding dogs (reguardless of what we are trying to produce)
is don't be to critical (or proud) of the first genoration puppies,
because it will be in the second and third genorations that you will prove
the breeding.

tom

Trying to "breed up" is difficult at best. It may very well take 4 or 5 or more generations so, why not just start out with what you are striving for and save yourself the aggravation? If you want a show type look to your hunting stock then definately start with a nice show bred puppy with the conformation you are seeking and look for similar conformation in your dogs to combine it with.

Definately ask the Mcvays ;-)

leah

Both the dam and sire's pedigree are listed at this web page:

http://home.earthlink.net/~tjcrewse/id3.html

Leah
Would "PD" be a good candidate to breed this to
http://home.earthlink.net/~tjcrewse/id20.html ???
(does not double up on "Ben")

PD (CH Kowtown's High Speed Chase)


tom

blunder wrote:Leah
Would "PD" be a good candidate to breed this to
http://home.earthlink.net/~tjcrewse/id20.html ???
(does not double up on "Ben")

PD (CH Kowtown's High Speed Chase)


tom

Well, you definately want to look at the faults of each dog and decide if they compliment each other. Its a complete outcross breeding so, Its hard for me to even guess if its a good choice.

TC, those pups got really nice heads but I'm amazed no one else noticed the bitch puppy has the worst feet I've ever seen on a Beagle before. Is she being kept on wire or anything like that? Both her front and back feet are frontally compact but her toes are spread eagle! That pups gonna have trouble with stamina later on. She's real beautiful and stands like a showdog but her feet are splayed.

I'm amazed no one else noticed the bitch puppy has the worst feet I've ever seen on a Beagle before.

Well its pretty obvious to me that you dont have a clue what your talking about LOL
But it does show just HOW MUCh you Dont know.


Its also obvious that you have never stacked a squirmin pup and after Dropping her front feet on the table from Rocking her that she was trying to get a grip I would go out andf get another pic for ya but it just aint worth the effort to try and show you that YOUR WRONG!!!!!!


BEV wrote

Maybe he banned himself and saved me the trouble, lol. Talk about sour grapes...

Oh Well wishful thinkin I guess!!!!