Boy talk about dead, so what about angles

[wvbill]

Shawn,

You need to be consistent on how you use the term "hunt". You are using it sometimes as a general statement (drive, searching, speed, heart, endurance, etc)and then you actually use it for the desire to search out and find. There was a few times it took me a little bit to figure out what you meant.

I refuse to sacrafice hunt "the searching out to find" but I will give away in other areas. If you would have the same passion for the show that you do the hunt you would be making enormous strides. But to each his own. Just keep an open mind.

TC,

A little length is nice but some of the stuff I have been seeing is either entirely to short or way to long. We can thank the influence of judges for this. I would rather try to breed length into a hound instead of trying to take it out. Prior experiences of reputable breeders. It is very hard to get rid of.

The UKC has done a great job of striving for the good looking hound that can pound a bunny. The NKC is starting to get infiltrated with it also. Dont know if we will every see the AKC go that way. I sure hope so. But there will be a huge hurdle and alot of egos will be mashed in the process.

Beaglebrit,

Would love to give you an fair evaluation of your hounds but......... The pics are taken from angles and I dont have my hands on them and I am not watching them move. Both are pleasing to the eyes type of hounds. Although the first one does look like she is carring more weight forward of her front legs. This could be giving her a problem that she feels front heavy when running so she is over compensating for it and looks ugly to the human eye. Or it could be just the angle of the picture.

Thornie,

Classic?!?!

Bill

[S.R.Patch]

I agree, the breastplate(bulk) in the front looks to inhibit freedom of reach and movement. The rear looks weak and may be narrow, when you get down infront of the hound, you should be able to look through the hound. The rear should be covered by the front or slightly outside, as the forelegs go inbetween the rear legs at a gallop.
The field bitch may not win you a show but she has the "look" and proves herself where it matters... ...jmho

[TC]

WVBillA little length is nice but some of the stuff I have been seeing is either entirely to short or way to long. We can thank the influence of judges for this. I would rather try to breed length into a hound instead of trying to take it out. Prior experiences of reputable breeders. It is very hard to get rid of.

The UKC has done a great job of striving for the good looking hound that can pound a bunny. The NKC is starting to get infiltrated with it also. Dont know if we will every see the AKC go that way. I sure hope so. But there will be a huge hurdle and alot of egos will be mashed in the process.

I agree with you 100% on the above stated, length is good to a point, to much or to little inhibits the dog. To long and I think the dog has back troubles, side tracks and is a mess, to short and the same issues. I feel there has to be moderation no matter what end of the spectrum. I see you must be attending a lot of good UKC shows for the good judges do get down and look at the dog from the floor, not above as they move towards the judge, does give you a better perspective as to the proper movement of the dog. As for the AKC the bench is a joke more often then not I know some take it serious, however many just view it as a job that they dislike at the trials, another issue with the AKC is that the bench show is only conducted at the UBGF trials not promoted through out the organization other then the conformation events themselves. This I feel is a huge failure for the registry for they are supposed to be the biggest. NKC, some times they are like you said starting to look at the conformation closer. I have been at NKC trials where the conformation is important to the competators and at other trials where it is just something to play with. I have noticed though at the NKC and UKC trials there is getting to be nicer and nicer dogs with a lot more ability then is recognized. Maybe due to the Field VS Show attitude, however I beleive there is a crack starting in that mold.

[Jane]

Cindy, the hound you got from Larry "Lanbur Curley Joe" was he not trained in the field ? He's a dual hound both field and show? His confirmation is excellent as an older hound you are showing him and he's winning.
I bought a show hound in late fall and he's 6 years old. I took him out to a friend running pen, along with an IFC bitch to show him around.. he needed no introduction. Good thing he was in the pen as we couldn't catch him because he was having so much fun being a beagle. We left the crate out, he ran all night on nose alone and from the looks that I got in the pen he was outstanding for his first time out on a hare at that age. I intend to continue to let this "show hound" be all the beagle he can be. It will keep him healthy running and build up muscle. The dog was not tired from his 12+ hour run. So what does that tell you. He is certainly capable of running in a LP trial here in Canada with the speed hounds, he's a full package. He has super talent and gracious good looks to boot! It was a pleasant surprise needless to say. I think it depends on the individual hound itself. He's blocky but this by no means has deterred his determination and heart. Next year he will be hunted over with the rest of the pack.

[wvbill]

That is awesome jane

[ohlinger.s]

Cindy, the hound you got from Larry "Lanbur Curley Joe" was he not trained in the field ? He's a dual hound both field and show? His confirmation is excellent as an older hound you are showing him and he's winning.
I bought a show hound in late fall and he's 6 years old. I took him out to a friend running pen, along with an IFC bitch to show him around.. he needed no introduction. Good thing he was in the pen as we couldn't catch him because he was having so much fun being a beagle. We left the crate out, he ran all night on nose alone and from the looks that I got in the pen he was outstanding for his first time out on a hare at that age. I intend to continue to let this "show hound" be all the beagle he can be. It will keep him healthy running and build up muscle. The dog was not tired from his 12+ hour run. So what does that tell you. He is certainly capable of running in a LP trial here in Canada with the speed hounds, he's a full package. He has super talent and gracious good looks to boot! It was a pleasant surprise needless to say. I think it depends on the individual hound itself. He's blocky but this by no means has deterred his determination and heart. Next year he will be hunted over with the rest of the pack.

Sounds like an exceptional dog I'll be looking forward to hearing and seeing more out of this dog. Maybe something to really base some breeding off of. I have a hard time believeing it had no problem with 12 hours of solid running right of the show room floor. If this is really the case that dog has got something special for sure!! it takes conditioning though for a dog to run that long. I guess you'll really test it when you put it out with other conditioned hounds. How are the rest of it's hunting traits ? I maybe very interested in seeing this dog sometime!!!!!! I will be in Canda in April for a large pack on hare trial perhaps we can arrange a meeting this should be plenty of time to really get that dog in shape. Something to consider to my knowledge there has not been a dual a.k.c champion in over 30 years. If this dog is capable you might want to think about pursueing that.

[TC]

Jane that is AWESOME
12 hours WOW I dont know a lot of Field Dogs that can run Constantly For that long.
How was he the over the next few Days after this Romp?

If you Would please post a pic of Him and his pedigree!!!!!!
We have been Searching for MANY MANY years for the Dual purpouse hound and Found that the Best way to get this was to breed our Own!!!!
if you have it We would be VERY interested in The BloodLines........
TC

[Beagled1]

I bought a show hound in late fall and he's 6 years old. I took him out to a friend running pen, along with an IFC bitch to show him around.. he needed no introduction. Good thing he was in the pen as we couldn't catch him because he was having so much fun being a beagle. We left the crate out, he ran all night on nose alone and from the looks that I got in the pen he was outstanding for his first time out on a hare at that age. I intend to continue to let this "show hound" be all the beagle he can be. It will keep him healthy running and build up muscle. The dog was not tired from his 12+ hour run.

Jane, that is awesome!!! I'd also love to know what breeding this dog was out of, if you wouldn't mind.

I recently bought a show bred, champion bitch (she is a champion in UKC & AKC), very balabced for an under 13". She is out of BIS CH. Bayou Oaks Smudge. In all honesty, I had no expectations that she'd be capable of running a hare herself - she's 4yrs old and has never seen a bunny in her life. She was so badly out of conditon when I got her that I decided to take her out with my pack, just for exercize. I was floored when she put her nose down and took of with the pack. She's a little tight mouthed but you'd never expect the sort of line control and desire she displays from a hound that was never bred for field work. I have upper medium & fast speed hounds and she just held her own with them! I plan to run her solo for a while both for the exercize and to see just how good of a hound she is.

She has good stamina, great spring of ribs. Her back is short, but not overly so, and her feet are tight, but not to the point where they're stubs coming out of the leg. I used to see very poor feet on some show breeding, they did not have enough of a foot on them from trying to keep it so "catlike". This bitch moves cleanly in the field and while gaiting. She's overangulated in the rear, and because of that is slower in the field. It looks flashy but definitely impedes her ththough. We shall see how she holds up long term. I've only run her for a few hours and did not notice any soreness, but that's not enough time to see how well seh's REALLY built. This pic doesn't do her justice because she looks SO painfully overangulated. Her back is not as angulated when she's moving as it appears here ... I have to get a pic of her moving in the field. It's unbelieveable how clean she is.

[ohlinger.s]

[quote="Beagled1




This bitch moves cleanly in the field and while gaiting. She's overangulated in the rear, and because of that is slower in the field. It looks flashy but definitely impedes her ththough. We shall see how she holds up long term. I've only run her for a few hours and did not notice any soreness, but that's not enough time to see how well seh's REALLY built. quote]

I don't see overangulated as something that slows a dog down in the field not over a single 4 or 5 hour run. Alot of a dogs tracking speed is genetics. Look at other types of hounds, You have different styles of hounds afield, from brace to little pack hounds. That is what determines a dogs speed. This is why in general I'd consider most show dogs medium speed. They are not bred to a certain style of field hound. If given a chance to run rabbits the ones I've seen are medium speed that do work rather clean lines. Good peformance and progressive pack speeds, nothing like some hare or little pack hounds that flat out get it which is the style of hound i prefer. I see how conformation can help over a lifetime of hunting but not affect a healhty dog with no signs of age to really determine how fast the hound tracks scent in the field in one outing. As for the dog that accomplished over 12+ hours of scenting in it's first time in a pen I really honestly have my doubts, but if this is true I WANT TO SEE THIS HOUND. For all you know the dog was laying down half the night sleeping in the pen until about the time you got in in the morning to come out and get it. That just sounds extremely fishy to me. Guys are asking about dogs with no bottom all the time very top hunting lines have no bottom to them and those lines have'nt become top lines for accomplishing feats that any average hound can accomplish. I'm not a pesimisitic guy, but you will have a hard time passing that on to many hunters. Now I have seen quite a few show bred hounds run rabbits they can and do run rabbits, but they are far shot from field champion quality. Nice dogs that can do the job, but I'm talking top notch hounds. Alot of traits which are hereditary, all beagles started from the same place I know, but it is extremely unlikely that this particular show hound (perhaps I'm mistaken in thinking that this hound is a dog bred only for show purposes and not hunting abilities) has kept those traits from the very original ancestors to be able to compete with hard hitting hounds and be a top of the ladder in a pack of 20 well bred hunting dogs. Somebody please prove me wrong!!!! I am a traveler ask anyone who knows me I'll come watch what you have and I will drop mine down as well so we can measure up this is'nt a challenge or anything, but we have a saying that goes "seeing is believeing" in the thirtyoughtsix breeding game show me the hound, and then ! show me the papers. I know quite a few beaglers from my area of the country who will propably take the time to come up with and see this hound perform the tasks you just said it performed as well.

[Jane]

It didn't fizz him a bit, took him a day to rest, he wasn't sore. I was VERY concerned about that as he's 6, and not in condition as my field hounds. Normally we run in the open and thank goodness I didn't do that. We got soooo much snow I can't seem to get any hounds out. I am planning to register him CKC, and let him run with the others in our Provincial field trial in May just for fun. The fellow that owns the pen is a judge, he was pleasantly surprised when he opened and moreso to watch him on the line with his bitch. I was pretty excited to see the hound go. I was told that he never ran a rabbit when I got him. Foolish me didn't bell him up so I could catch him. He probably had alot of pent up "beagle" in him. He was cast a 2 PM, he checked on him at 7 PM, still going and again at 10 PM still going... and could hear him before bedtime going. We caught his bitch at 5PM that day. He went up and got him in the morning as I left the crate and blankie for him.
I run LP, so maybe I'm a bit nutty letting this hound go running as he's "show " dog. All I can tell you he is a whole lot of fun, a good all around dog. Just because you "think" the hunt has been bred out of "show" dog .. doesn't make it true given the chance. I can't imagine him being a dual champion at that age, maybe if he was a younger hound and remember he has no knowledge of pack pressure but I am having fun letting him be "himself".

[TC]

Jane,
I can fully understand that. When yer ready to let us know what lines am really interested in hearing about him. I understand where you are coming from I think given the chance there is a lot of the show lines out there that can and will run a rabbit, however their life is pre designed for them to do what they do.

[ohlinger.s]

I guess i don't want people think i'm trying to say show bred dogs can't run rabbits. Like i said I've watched to u.k.c world show champions that where not bred originaly (i think miss ohio may have been out of chipp which could be an exception) to run rabbits and do a pretty darn good job, but can they hold up as well as a dog that has generations of proven hounds behind it to run day in and day out and HARD running. My point is are some of these tough hard hitting hunting dogs really that far off from the a.k.c version of a conformationaly sound dog.

[mike crabtree]

I dont see where some who are breeding for show looks are bettering the bredd.
I dont see where breeding for Blueticks is bettering the breed.
I dont see how breeding crooked legged dogs that can smoke a Rabbit is bettering the Breed.


I know for a fact When I breed Im not bettering the breed in most peoples eyes. I breed for what Ole CrabDaddy likes.


Who decides what is bettering the breed? Who is right?????

[TC]

Who decides what is bettering the breed? Who is right?????

YOU Do!!! and YOU Are!!!
you Aint breeding S*#t to S*@T are ya???
your breeding your Best to Your Best...
As far as I am Concerned thats bettering the breed
When Someone wants to breed to your female or use your male You wanna See the Dog run.
Right? if you Dont like it! are you breeding to it still??
just Caint see you Doin that!!!

[Honey Pot Hounds]

Hi ALL,
CH Lanbur's Curly Joe is NOT a field Champion. He has sired some good field competitors out of field bitches though. Before I bought him his former owner Larry said he did okay in LP, after Joe was here Larry said he wouldn't chase a bunny...who knows, he definitly tried to kill our cat, he is INSANE when it comes to cats so I certainly think he'd chase a bunny as I have never seen a beagle go so freaking nuts over a poor cat

Personally I think Larry just got sick of Joe's endless barking but he will never admit it ....so I had Joe debarked, but where there is a will there is a way and his bark is back! So when I take his loudmouth daughter in to be debarked (unless she goes to Sundown to chase rabbits after her show CH) he is getting a "free" re-do since I have promised him he can grow old and die here.

Bettering the breed.....I breed for temperment, conformation and soundness.....I don't lie to hunters and say my dogs will herd bunnies for them, I sell most of my gorgeous, healthy, well put together puppies to families and I show and breed the ones I think are the best. I am happy to work with field beaglers who treat and care for their Beagles similar to the way I do. I have plenty of field and show beagle friends and I don't care what anyone else, field or show, thinks about my vision for the future of my Beagles.