AKC Show and Field champion

[TC]

Recieved points Today at the Clarksville Tn Show
No majors
Was Shown by Our Daughter Both did an excelent job......

Its a Start!!!!!!

[Honey Pot Hounds]

CONGRATULATIONS!!! That is a very nice looking dog!!
Was that AKC points?? I jope so. He looks like he can finish his
AKC CH NO PROBLEM

[TC]

Yes it was an AKC show..
Thanks Cindy!
I hope we have good luck this weekend in St louis.

[tiffinis]

Ok, show peeps. When is anybody going to be showing in the tri state area around PA? I found a couple of small shows in the area, but I would be willing to travel to see some of you guys!!

[SilverZuk]

I have a question as far as the condition of dogs in shows.
To me, most show dogs look a little soft compared to a running dog (little extra weight, not as much muscle tone).
Is it preferred for them to have a little extra weight on?
Would judges be harder on a dog where you could see the last two ribs?

[Honey Pot Hounds]

No, MY DOGS are FAT compared to most show dogs. I always get teased about it Mine are fit but definitly not showring skinny unless we are showing heavily. Judges and handlers seem to prefer skinny.
Most showdogs are shown very lean and many of them are muscular. Conformation handlers use treadmills and roadwork and all kinds of exercise to condition their dogs. Beagles mostly keep themselves in shape BUT if you have a superbly conditioned lean mean machine he should do very well in the shows considering all else is equal AND he is not noticably underweight.

[Windkist]

I have a question as far as the condition of dogs in shows.
To me, most show dogs look a little soft compared to a running dog (little extra weight, not as much muscle tone).
Is it preferred for them to have a little extra weight on?
Would judges be harder on a dog where you could see the last two ribs?

I think we do keep them a tad heavier than field dogs but, not much. I want to easily feel ribs and my dogs are rock hard and very fit. Some of the running dogs are a little thin for my taste but, I also realize they are that way for a reason.

Leah

[TC]

Mine are all Rock Hard But then again We run them at least 2 hours a day...
Ok Leah here is one for ya
I was told (and i can give Both judges names) That my Dog Was OVER MUSCLED and that was thier reason For his lower Placement
We had to Compleatley Quit Runnin Mizz T was told that She was over muscled to the point it made her look like a male as soon as we put her up for 2 weeks she placed Now we have NEVER had that problem in UKC just AKC
What would your responce to the judge be???????
I actually Showed One in AKC once 2 days after a trial and was chastized by the judge for the scratches in his ears!!!!!!!
But Won RBIS 2 days later at an UKC show.Why the Difference????

[marr24]

Compared to field dogs, I've noticed that show dogs are bigger boned and have bigger frames. Some appear heavy as well, but that can be seen in field dogs too. I have always heard that over-muscled dogs can be at a disadvantage in the field due to lacking stamina, this is something I've noticed with my own hounds as well. Kind of like a muscled up sprinter vs. a lean marathon runner. Our leaner racier built hounds do not tire as quickly as our thick muscled hounds. Not sure how this relates to the beagle standard and the show ring but it's interesting.

-Stacy

[TC]

I have always heard that over-muscled dogs can be at a disadvantage in the field due to lacking stamina, this is something I've noticed with my own hounds as well. Kind of like a muscled up sprinter vs. a lean marathon runner. Our leaner racier built hounds do not tire as quickly as our thick muscled hounds.

Yes you are Right The Over Muscled Dogs tend to Tire Faster than the leaner Dogs We only have One that will get over Muscled like your talking about But then again She is Built differently than the others like you said She is Stockier Shorter in Leangth ect So in her i could see it BUT not in the others.. If we keep her Weight Down it is not as bad.....

[Windkist]

Ok Leah here is one for ya
I was told (and i can give Both judges names) That my Dog Was OVER MUSCLED and that was thier reason For his lower Placement

The judge who told you that is wrong unless she was cloddy and overdone with muscle. If she was firm and hard and in condition then she or he should read our standard which mentions muscle and condition several times

"Hips and thighs strong and well muscled, giving abundance of propelling power. Stifles strong and well let down. Hocks firm, symmetrical and moderately bent. Feet close and firm. Defects--Cowhocks, or straight hocks. Lack of muscle and propelling power. Open feet."

I think beagles should appear somewhat elegant rather than overdone and huge. That is not to say that a boxier beagle can't be elegant. I just recently sent a beagle to Hawaii to be campaigned for a year and the new owners were amazed at his muscle tone. I just figure they should all be like that and not laying in crates 24/7 getting soft.

Stupid Judges don't deserve more entries and I have even written to a few of them...lol

Leah

[TOUCHSTONEBGLS]

TC, I have shown in both AKC and UKC and so I will try to answer your question as tactfully as possible. It would help if I could see the dog you are refering to. Leah made an important point in that a beagle should have an elegant look. This look is due to the type of muscle that is correct for a beagle. Smooth muscle with good tone is most beneficial. Bulky (bulging) muscle is a detriment. It is not the thick muscle on the outside that you see that is most detrimental but rather the accompanied thickness of muscle between the shoulder blade and the body that decreases endurance. Leah also stated that the dog should be "well let down". Just for fun ask the next 10 judges what that actually means and why it is important. Well let down describes shortness from the hock joint to the ground. What that does for the dog is provides for greater length of bone in the muscled portion of the hind quarter. Attached to longer bone is longer muscle. Longer muscle facilitates endurance.
It is important to note that the quality of dogs in UKC show competitions is not yet of the caliber in AKC show competitions. There are a few very good dogs and UKC is growing at a rapid rate but the level of competition may be another factor involved.
It is also important to recognize that UKC is a performance based registry which gives the working dog advantage over those conditioned on the treadmill all else being equal. A dog will not likely be penalized for scratches. I also believe a physically superior dog with scratches would win over a lesser specimen in AKC shows unless politics are in play. Some of my thoughts on the subject. Breed excellent structured hunting beagles and as you bring the structure on the dogs to a competitive level they will have success in both registries. This is not a short term endeavor but will take great effort by many for generations of breeding.

[TC]

It would help if I could see the dog you are refering to

Dan one of the Dogs I was refering to is at the start of this post page one.
As far as the rest of what you are saying all this I know. We also have studied the breed for many years and have a better understanding than Some of What a well put together hound actually is... AND have been breeding to just that end also.
We have placed in AKC shows as well as UKC and started in AKC
Now i do Disagree with your Statement of a better quality of hound in the AKC how long has it been since YOU showed a beagle in a AKC show ring?
I feel that the judges have Gone more For a type than for the actual standard Depending on WHO is Showing or WHO bred the Dog
Some that i have seen placing latley look more like minature Pits than beagles (IMHO) and i myself Would not own one but then again i like to Run my dogs!! the type that have been Winning lately would not hold up in the field..due to Poor structure They may look nice but Just couldnt get it done..........

[SilverZuk]

TC answered it.
I don't have any "show quality" dogs, but overall conformation is fair to good.
I was just wondering is someone showed up with a rabbit dog complete with scratched ears and the hair on the tip of its tail almost gone - How would it be judged?

I also agree with Windkist about underweight dogs at trials.
I see many at trials that are underweight to poor.
It is OK to see the last rib or two on the dog, but you should not be able to them all and never be able to see the spine or hip bones.

[TOUCHSTONEBGLS]

TC, It may be true that the AKC show beagles in your area are poor quality dogs that do not have the physical structure to run a rabbit. I haven't been to an AKC show in the south for a long time. I also agree that the politics in AKC are out of hand. AKC shows still have many quality beagles. The most sucessful UKC show beagles ARE AKC show dogs. How often have you seen more than a couple of beagles at a UKC all-breed show. Except premier and again most of the winning is done by Dual AKC/UKC champions. UKC has a long way to go to equal the competition offered at AKC shows. The important thing is to continue moving in the right direction. Breeding to suit the flavor of the day in order to win would be a detriment. Breeding to suit correct breed type is the better route to take for promoting total dogs.