New Show prospect/foundation of a Dual Line

Larry G · Post by **Larry G** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:32 am

Progress report on the female?

buckridge · Post by **buckridge** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:11 am

I have several shaw bred show bitches and none of them would ever open up on a line... they love to hunt and sight chase... but thats all they do.... wishing you the best of luck with her.

I have cross bred a show male and a field bitch and got some very nice running dogs, after the second generation of breeding back to field.

SilverZuk · Post by **SilverZuk** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:34 am

That is what breeding dogs is about.
Breed purpose with good conformation.

Larry G · Post by **Larry G** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:00 pm

Funny thing is, I have one now that will tongue the line OK alone, but in a pack he runs silent. Full show blood. Never saw that before, but have seen some that would steal the line until they got far ahead and then open. This dog can really run if he would just start calling it... probably won't.

Maybe Beaglebrit's hound is catching on.... what say, BB?

TC · Post by TC » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:40 pm

That’s my Experience with the Shaw line also Good on the line but no Voice!
We have a lot of Shaw and Applegate in our Lines the Applegate just seemed to add a little more hunt !We crossed to a complete hunt line and are now on our 4th Generation with Great results!!!!

I would also Like to say it great to see more of the Show Folk on here when we first started this Venture 10 years ago you would be lucky to get a Show person to even Speak to you about Running or Hunting dogs OR a hunt lines only person to talk to you about Show Dogs LOL
When we first came to this Board 4 or 5 years ago we caught a lot of heck!!
Took us a LONG time to get folks to see that you can have the best of BOTH worlds a nice Show dog with Good hunt and in Some cases GREAT HUNT
BUT we had to prove ourselves We have always had the philosophy Well they are beagle aint they? Just cause they are pretty Don’t mean they caint run Rabbits!!!!
We got a lot of SHOW ME so WE HAVE
As our motto Says
From FIELD to SHOW from SHOW to FIELD the way it should be!!!!
So again I am REALLY Glad to See Folks like Honey Pot (Cindy) and Windkist (Leah) Buckridge, Larry G and all the rest
If you have not noticed (WE HAVE) you are getting a lot more hunters and trialers interested in breeding better Conformation into their hounds
This has been through Education From some folks With a lot of Experience on BOTH sides Coming together
We have a long Way to go but together we will get there
TC
Crewse-N-Beagles

Oh buy the way here is our next hope for the Dual CH
Watch for him this year!!!!
Along with a couple Other nice Surprises
This fella jumped and Ran three Rabbits the other Day On his own 2 of them to a full Circle!!!!! WOO HOO
he needs another Win to be an UKC CCH and We are gonna be Showing him in AKC this spring and Summer Along with his Field trialing in UKC H&H and Hopefully he will maintain his Foot for AKC Spo

stardustknl · Post by **stardustknl** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:19 pm

TC wrote:I would also Like to say it great to see more of the Show Folk on here when we first started this Venture 10 years ago you would be lucky to get a Show person to even Speak to you about Running or Hunting dogs OR a hunt lines only person to talk to you about Show Dogs LOLWhen we first came to this Board 4 or 5 years ago we caught a lot of heck!! Took us a LONG time to get folks to see that you can have the best of BOTH worlds a nice Show dog with Good hunt and in Some cases GREAT HUNT BUT we had to prove ourselves We have always had the philosophy Well they are beagle aint they? Just cause they are pretty Don’t mean they caint run Rabbits!!!!
We got a lot of SHOW ME so WE HAVE
As our motto Says From FIELD to SHOW from SHOW to FIELD the way it should be!!!! So again I am REALLY Glad to See Folks like Honey Pot (Cindy) and Windkist (Leah) Buckridge, Larry G and all the rest
If you have not noticed (WE HAVE) you are getting a lot more hunters and trialers interested in breeding better Conformation into their hounds
This has been through Education From some folks With a lot of Experience on BOTH sides Coming together

I do have to agree! My family started in beagles in the early 50's, my parents bred limitedly for FT's more for personal hunting....then I jumped into the show scene (with our FT dogs) as a teenager. I will say in the last 10yrs I have witnessed more "cross-over" then I had ever recalled before that....but as you say "You would be lucky to get a show person to talk to you about field dogs/lines" My experience went both ways...sadly. I encountered several long time "field" breeders who wouldn't give me the time of day because my dog had a Ch in front of his name! BUT am very glad to have been directed to this board...and to see others who are trying to keep the dual dog in mind, adding some "hunt" back in, and/or improving conformation!

Post by **Bev** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:39 pm

How about y'all send me a favorite pic of one of your champions, all posed up like TC's pic - or whatever you want, and I'll add them to the Show Section at northamericanbeagle.com to get that section started off. We can add new champs as y'all make them, put results of shows up, a schedule for upcoming big events, all that jazz.

Email pics to:

editor@northamericanbeagle.com

add your name, state, dog's name & kennel name.
THANK YOU!

Beagle Huntsman · Post by **Beagle Huntsman** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:17 pm

As for the lack of mouth from Shaw's, etc, I think it depends on the individual hound. I have a Briarhill female we got from Bruce Smith who can find and run a very nice rabbit with plenty of mouth. In fact, if you didn't see her, you'd never know she was ALL show bred. Even Jim Bucksot would like her!! She's a granddaughter of CH. Shaw's Spirit of the Chase from a Daragoj mother. Her puppies have also been fine with mouth.

I had a gorgeous show champion male grandson of Chase who was bad to run deer and would open up only about every quarter mile or so. I bred one litter from him as a test, got a number of cherry eyes, then sent him packing. The deer, the tight mouth, and the cherry eyes made three strikes and he was out!

From my one litter by Shaw's Chase, mouth was not an issue, except that the mouths are weak. Show dogs don't often give you the big voices you get from many field lines. My biggest problem with the Chase litter was excessive speed and roughness. Not terrible, but bad enough I didn't use them much in the pack. Now, the second generation down has been very good.

Years ago, CH. Wagon Wheels Winter Sport used to throw a lot of tight mouth. It was one of the drawbacks to some of the Little Ireland hounds. Mouth is an easy thing to fix, though, it seems to me.

Post by **Bev** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:58 pm

Jim (Bucsot), there was nothing wrong with your Marker Barker's voice, lol. Even in the field. When I took him to James Hitchcock's starting pen, he opened up on track like he'd been doing it all his life. He shut up at the checks, too. Mark had a loud clarion chop.

The pic's kinda fuzzy, but here he is mingling with the field dogs in my back yard. He's the one too cool to play in the pool, LOL!

Here's a better pic of CH Riverrun Buckridge Marksman (Shaw bred, too) and a field person who didn't know how to stack a show dog:

Honey Pot Hounds · Post by **Honey Pot Hounds** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:36 pm

I have a Buckridge Rivverrun 6 month old boy. His first show will be next weekend. He's about 13.5".

Because he's a BOY he might be for sale to the right home (unless of course he wins a major next weekend or something, lol).

Here he is at 4 months
Honey Pot What Tiggers Do Best

You can see more pictures of him and his Dam and littermates, etc., on my website. His dam is Parkers littersister.

buckridge · Post by **buckridge** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:56 am

Mark is out of Riverrun bloodlines, and yes he can run and bark on line.
He has a grandson who is doing good in field trials I understand, may become a dual champion someday.
Mark is with John Stuckwitch as a show rep in teaching field people how to handle and show in the ring. Good basic conformation instructions.
Mark gets to run and hunt now days along with his conformation job.

Mark was our very first show dog and show champion, winning over several specials when he was only 8 months old.

Mark will always be our number one dog.

Post by **Bev** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:25 am

My mistake, Jim. I thought you told me Mark had some Ch Shaw's Spirit Of The Chase in there. My memory is fading fast, lol. He sure was a sweet hound, but all business in the field. That dog hunted every square inch when he was out. I love this pic of his head - he has a perfect head to me:

Beaglebrit · Post by **Beaglebrit** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:07 am

Well, for an update on Cakes my show puppy...She turned a year old last month,We need a Major in the ring...Not many of those here in the Deep South. Her hunting work has been put on hold for a bit...I don't want any nasty ear fungus on her ear margins while we are trying for that Major, She has won all her points with her whiskers on, and her belly unshaven...her neck trimed only with a 7 blade.
About once a week we run her with the other girls...She will pack..likes to sight chase but does not have a mouth...Tight mouth and no Volume....Once she is finished in the ring we are planning to breed her to a FC bred male with a lot of talent and good looks and a Great voice! Thanks for asking!

Larry G · Post by **Larry G** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:05 pm

Sounds a little crazy, but I had excellent results by breeding a show male to a brace trial type female. The old girl has mouth, nose and guts to spare, just no foot... but the pups had it all. MOF I gave one of the males away for loose mouth. The trick is to find a properly structured brace female and these days that ain't easy. Just my luck she had to be spayed or she would be the Ethel Kennedy of beagles.

If you don't mind looking at something like this:

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?ph ... &password=

Then don't bother with breeding for looks. She won a trial for me Saturday. Won't win many beauty contests.

If you would rather look at this:

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?ph ... &password=

AND win the trials/shoot the rabbit you have to go outside what most of the good ol' boys are doing. They'll defend their ugly specimens by saying "pretty don't run the rabbit"... I think we need to get away from that idea and breed more responsibly... we are "breed stewards" and what we pass on to those who come after us will be all they have to work with.

marr24 · Post by **marr24** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:09 pm

Larry,

While Blaze is a nice looking hound, I don't think you need to go outside of field-only lines to find one that looks similar to him, actually there are a good many. That female you showed is not a great representive of field beagles in my opinion, although there are some that resemble her, most are built quite a bit better to be able to hold up in the field even though they might not look exactly like a show hound. The biggest difference I see between show and field lines is the head.

Sounds a little crazy, but I had excellent results by breeding a show male to a brace trial type female. The old girl has mouth, nose and guts to spare, just no foot... but the pups had it all

That is definitley going to be the exception, not the rule. Usually you would get some like the sire, some like the dam, and maybe a couple, but more than likely none that will take on the best characteristics of both. You must have done something right!