Beagles in Show. Whether your beagle shows full-time in the ring or part-time at the field trials, this forum can be helpful and informative for those seeking better conformation in their beagles, and presenting them at their best to the judge.
Well Chief you already know my Stand on the YUk Er Euk Feed LOL POOR Puppy...
As far as the bites Go a scissor Bite is prefered. i have seen the results of a bitch trying to welp that had a severe underbite she couldnt chew the cord and had to be helped. A slight overbite at a young age can at times Correct itself with the growth of the lower jaw not as likely in a underbite...
as far as this being hereditary Not really sold on that one Seen a litter born once out of a dog that never had it in the lines (that could be found anyways) and 2 of the pups had underbites... one of the females was sold as a hunting dog went on to produce 4 litters and never had a problem.....
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be
TC, it is hereditary... doesn't mean the hound can't become a wonderful hunter, just, shouldn't be bred for continuing the line. Recessives lay waiting to come out in all manners, just up to us to hold to a standard and not use them further in our breeding. Some culls are wonderful hounds and should be enjoyed all their usefull lives, just use the best ones showing the least fault, for breeding...
I know that a resesive gene can Show up WAY down the line and have never seen any pups from any of the pups that the bitch had so caint say how many may have had bad bites 5 or 6 generations down the road it can pop up..
As far as being Resesive Wouldnt the male also have to have it in the line?
lets say you bred a male that had never had a history in its line 3 or 4 generations back of under shot or overshot bites but 5 generations back one of the females in the line did.
Now you breed this male to a female that had never shown any signs of bad bites lets say 3 generations back but that 4th may have had one What are your chances on getting a bad bite?
I agree that a dog with a bad bite should not be bred But i can think of a lot better reasons for Culling than just a bad bite IF it aint To bad.
I personally Would not breed one with an excessive bite problem..
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be
This is just the thing you have to worry about most when line breeding a family. One fellow has a bitch that is undershot, he breeds her to different males throughout her life, eventually these pups may find their way back together in future breedings and the fault starts to show up in a majority of pups. It's like a bag of different coloured marbles with each representing a trait, the more hounds you put in the pedigree carring the same colour marbles, the more chance of you pulling one out when you make a breeding. Some marbles of colour will be good traits and some marbles of different colour will be bad, the more carriers of the bad coloured marbles you put in the bag, the greater your chances of pulling them out when you make a cross of the hounds...
Clear as mud...?
True, you have to allow for the degree of the fault.
My Pop Fannie bitch had the hernia and her daughter also had it, it broke my heart...
There's that word,, Excessive,,, wonder why the AKC standard don't mention overbite,,, underbite as a flaw in the flaw section of the head???? Hmm,, are we chasing a ghost here??? Level,,, like Leah said what the heck does that mean???
Chief, the bite is important most for the bitch chewing the cord of the pups, if it is under or over to a great degree, she has to use her jaw teeth and this is where you get bellies of pups torn open. The "even" or "scissor bite" will seal off and cut the cord so excess chewing is not needed to cut the cord, a hound chewing with the jaw teeth will take more time and the pup gets lifted and jerked around more by the cord causing the belly undue stress.
The fault in the male used may not hurt the bitch's delivery but the pups will carry his sin...
Patch and TC,, My females only have maybe .010 of an inch difference in the front teeth.. Top ones forward,,, is that tooo much??? Dang I wish we could see some pics here on this issue... My males are a little worse maybe .020 to .025 of an inch....
TOUCHSTONEBGLS wrote:crewchf, those top winning show dogs on tv do not have disquallified bites. Poor bites are not acceptable by reputable breeders.
I have heard that the lower jaw is the slowest growing bone in the dogs body. So a slightly overshot bite may correct itself. But no guarantee of that. An undershot bite is a bad thing. A dog with a disquallification of this type should not be bred. It is genetic.
Hey chief ther is a little wiggle room here notice the reputable part. LOL
Just joking
In our standard I guess "jaws Level" means that a level bite is ok. It really doesnt' go into detail. If I had an exceptional dog with a level bite I may be tempted to keep it. Umbilical hernias also do not stop me from keeping one as long as its not something I am getting all the time. I can only think of maybe 3 umbilical hernias in about the last 10 years and these bitches when bred again didn't have anymore puppies with this problem.
Wow! You guys are bein a little rough on me here!
Crew Chief, I never said that a dog with a disquallified bite should be shot. I do maintain that a mature dog with a disquallified bite should not be bred. That is the stance of reputable breeders. If the dam or sire has this problem the pups or grandpups will likely have the problem and possably worse.
A scissors or level bite is acceptable. Scissors bites are generally preferred. If there is a visible gap between the top and bottom teeth then the bite is a disquallification.
"Level jaws" - neither upper nor lower jaw protrudes when the dentition is alligned properly.
Structure: The winning edge!
Hunting Beagles Bred For FORM AND FUNCTION
GRCH/GRHBCH White River Beau Of Touchstone
HBCH/CH Touchstone's Whimsical Dream
TOUCHSTONEBGLS wrote:Wow! You guys are bein a little rough on me here!
Crew Chief, I never said that a dog with a disquallified bite should be shot. I do maintain that a mature dog with a disquallified bite should not be bred. That is the stance of reputable breeders. If the dam or sire has this problem the pups or grandpups will likely have the problem and possably worse.
A scissors or level bite is acceptable. Scissors bites are generally preferred. If there is a visible gap between the top and bottom teeth then the bite is a disquallification.
"Level jaws" - neither upper nor lower jaw protrudes when the dentition is alligned properly.
I agree with you for the most part Touchstone. I never keep beagles with off bites because I have plenty of good ones who have perfect scissors bites. I think that if you breed a bitch twice and both times she has puppies with bad bites you might want to spay her. Let me give you an example of when you should be a little easier on this.. I have a top producing bitch that has never given me anything but puppies with perfect bites until the last litter and I got 5 puppies that at a young age had slightly under (very slight) and level bites. I really liked these puppies so, I kept them all until their adult teeth came in. All but, one had a perfect bite when they were done teething. The one who didn't come back is in a pet home but, I certainly wouldn't have blamed this on the Dam of this litter. It was just the cross and thats ok. When I breed these daughters if I start having bite issues I'll be thinking about what I need to do but, honestly I am not really worried because there isn't a history of it in any of my beagle lines. I can't see spaying a perfectly good bitch if she has a puppy now and then with a bad bite. There are so many other things that we need to cull for and its a fairly benign problem.
Always be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater ;-)
