Obama or McCain?

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Obama or McCain

Obama
24
32%
McCain
50
68%
 
Total votes: 74

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S.R.Patch
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Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by S.R.Patch »

I seem to remember an "opt out" choice offered by the Union, that way you could save your dues for a "rainy day" fund... :lol:
I've been a proud card carrier for 31 years. I've not always been thrilled at the Union's backing of candidates. The safety improvements the Union has worked with the Company on has greatly improved safety at the plants. No more burns from breaker explosions or valve bonnets breaking from over torque.
I've seen the coal mines round here get rid of the Unions by sell-outs(different names/same owners), soon as they were gone the non-union mines start to revert to their old ways, no standard to match, accidents start to climb.
We tend to police ourselves on productivity and working safe, dead weight don't cut it anymore. Attitude makes all the difference.
Local IBEW 1395, proud to help set the standard high... ;)

ps...Our Union shop Company is one of the top 10 low cost providers of electricity.

bluegrass
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Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by bluegrass »

Local IBEW 1395, proud to help set the standard high...

I'm glad its worked for you and your 31 year old card...thats the exception rather than the rule...My dad was also a "card carrying member" of the UAW in Norwood Ohio...the inefficiency throughout GM plants nationwide has directly contributed to the rising prices of American made vehicles (along with rediculous environmental standards). Some of the stories I have been told, not to mention the ones I have seen personally, only prove the wastefulness and low standards of productivity that unions promote. When workers are told that they need to slow the line down because they are working too fast for productivity standards, we have a problem...achievement is stifled and creative ideas are squelched in favor of towing the line and following the laziest workers productivity. If I need to hire a contractor of ANY kind, I will look for the NON UNION worker first...he or she will be the one to work the best and most efficiently because they DON'T have a union to slow them down.


Tony
The 1st amendment allows the usual liberal narcissistic "I think.." which is how they start all their sentences.

The second amendment protects us from implementing "I think"

wildhare2
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Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by wildhare2 »

What types of unions are you refering to? I just know this. I pay those dues to have a group of people to fight for what we deserve.
1. Good pay. If I were non-union I would be earning 10 dollars less on the hour.
2. Good health insurance, which by the way I do not pay for out of pocket. It is in my total package which is about 45 dollars per hour
3. Retirement that I don't have to put in to just to get matched.

I know that the teamsters gave all unions bad names, but there are people who actually work for their money in those factories. It's just the lazy ones who give the rest a bad name.

I work, or I don't get paid. They get rid of the lazy one's in my union.
Every man has to make a living union or not!
Unions were started to help the workers safety. Just think what it would be like without them. And all you union haters just remember this one thing.
Everytime we get a raise so do you in some little way. You want us to make more so that you make more.

Also the hoffa thing was just a joke
Justin Rutledge

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wildhare2
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Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by wildhare2 »

Tony,

Why don't you quit the union and go non-union and see how much of a pay cut you will take. :loser:

Go ahead and get the LESS TRAINED worker for you.
To me you just sound like a RAT and I hope you try the other side of the fence.
Last edited by wildhare2 on Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Justin Rutledge

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Bev
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Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by Bev »

Justin, as usual, you show how wet behind the ears you are. I take offense at your implication that if a tradesman isn't union that he's somehow less talented, educated, or competent.

My father was a non-union electrician. Pate Builders (higher-end homes) and other custom home builders used to call him to come wire up special features in their homes when he wasn't on his regular job. They liked his work better than their regular electricians. Some of these homes were so upscale the kitchens had to have their own breaker boxes. Dad fed and housed a wife and 3 daughters on his non-union salary.

My son is a non-union, industrial maintenance electrician. He makes $3 less per hour than you do, doesn't pay union dues, and has top-drawer benefits. Hasn't been laid off a single day in ten years, but if he should be, he doesn't have to worry about where and with whom he can work. He can go anywhere. You, on the other hand, will sit and wait until they call your low-seniority tail back to work, or you can find another union shop who will have you. And, you will continue to pay union dues when your paycheck is not coming in.

I have been in the working world ten years longer than you've been alive. I've seen the times come and go, economically, industrially, both good and bad. I've watched my neighbors, whose husband was a union pipefitter almost lose their house several times, and live on bologna because Tom only worked 6 months out of the year. He made fat money when he worked, but he sweat bullets when he didn't. Factor in the time off over the long haul, and his quality of life wasn't any better than anyone else. In fact, he made out worse some years.

I am good friends with a retired union stewart. He was the sheit when he was working and lording over the foundry like a big shot, with his hand on the kill switches if management didn't cow to his every whim, braggin' about how "the union" made him untouchable, and somehow better than anyone else in his trade. Made fat money as you can imagine, had some fun in his life, felt he was able to retire early because of his awesome union and its benefits. What he didn't count on was retirement brings no overtime for the extras, and he barely keeps his bills paid these days. He works in a pumpkin patch this time every year to make extra money for his property taxes, and has to budget his beer money. How the mighty do fall -- none of us are immune. And his income will stay just like it is for the next 11 years until he can draw Soc Sec. You think the price of food, cigarettes, heating fuel, and other things will stay the same for him?

The union life is not for everyone. Some don't find the gamble worth it. They don't consider the control they must give up over their own lives a very good deal at all. Some do. But the ones who don't are not a lesser form of life, and they don't deserve to have their houses burn or "disappear" or be cut, or whatever hateful, violent thing you've wished on someone today. In my opinion, you're exactly where you belong -- in the It's All About Me-Me-Me Club.

I'm proud that you can make good money -- and you have worked to get where you are at this young age. I hope you always, always, always have work throughout your life and never suffer lay-offs, recessions, or anything else that will put your high hourly rate into a different category, because if you miss even 6 weeks of work in a year, you will be making 50 cents less an hour than my non-union son. If you miss any more than 6 weeks in a year, you may be going to him for a loan. It's not how much money you make an hour, this week, or even this year. How much money you really make will be determined over your lifetime.

I'm personally watching for the day when you can take as good as you dish out, :baby: but I don't think I will live that long, lol.

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Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by bluegrass »

wildhare2 wrote:Tony,

Why don't you quit the union and go non-union and see how much of a pay cut you will take. :loser:

Go ahead and get the LESS TRAINED worker for you. I hope their lack of skill and training burns your house down. :moon:
To me you just sound like a RAT and I hope you try the other side of the fence.
Well, well....seems like I struck a nerve...again, your idle threats dont bother me at all pal. As for your idiot filled ranting, I CAN opt out of my union without a pay cut whatsoever. You should have read my post better (assuming you have full faculties and decent reading comprehension). I pay my dues simply because they have that tarded clause that says they can BILL me for services they deem done on my behalf if I am NOT in the union...see how crooked they are?? Bill me or join the union. Either way its not about the WORKER, its about the MONEY.

If you are going to try and say that just because someone is in a union that they are better trained and more qualified I have to not only question your IQ but your sanity as well...I have never seen a school, university or tech school ran by any UNION...did I miss the IBEW Institute for the Advancement of Hillbilly's somewhere?? How would being in a union make someone more qualified and better trained than someone NOT in a union??

If I am not mistaken, this is twice within this very thread that you have made a veiled threat against someone with a different opinion than you...you are very cyberbrave pal...I bet you are just as brave when you have a bunch of cro magnons backing you up too. Are you that brave when you are by yourself?? My guess is NO!

Finally, as for calling me a RAT I suppose thats because I don't like the unions huh...well, if I have to become lazy, moronic, self righteous, pompous and constantly walk around with an air of entitlement just to avoid insults, keep namecalling then. I would rather be an independent minded RAT than a kool aid drinking, liberal swallowing synchophant.


Tony
The 1st amendment allows the usual liberal narcissistic "I think.." which is how they start all their sentences.

The second amendment protects us from implementing "I think"

wildhare2
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Location: Indianapolis, In

Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by wildhare2 »

I don't know what other unions do as far as training. We go through our schooling, which is one of the best in the country, and go through some college courses. I know that in the union I am in, if you don't come to work and do your job, than you are going to be laid off. I have worked on both sides and have been trained by both and MY OPINION is I have been better informed and trained by our union. JMO!
I am done with this and going to go run dogs. Have fun bickering for no reason. Get rid of politics and lets just talk about dogs!



Bev,

Your father also did that when a dollar went a little farther. I also said the everyone has to feed their families union or not. I have PLENTY of non-union electrician friends. I used to work non-union when I got out of high school and college. My father also owned a non union shop. Don't think that I don't know what I am talking about because I am younger than you. I have been there too! As far as what I have said, I apoligize for any thing said out of anger and disgust.

Tony,

As for this post. I don't care. Have fun do what you do.
Justin Rutledge

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tommyg
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Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by tommyg »

Liberals have an agenda.

Monday, October 13, 2008
BARONE: The coming liberal thugocracy
Michael Barone
COMMENTARY:

"I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors," Barack Obama told a crowd in Elko, Nev. "I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face." Actually, Obama supporters are doing a lot more than getting into people's faces. They seem determined to shut people up.

That's what Obama supporters, alerted by campaign e-mails, did when conservative Stanley Kurtz appeared on Milt Rosenberg's WGN radio program in Chicago. Mr. Kurtz had been researching Mr. Obama's relationship with unrepentant Weather Underground terrorist William Ayers in Chicago Annenberg Challenge papers in the Richard J. Daley Library in Chicago - papers that were closed off to him for some days, apparently at the behest of Obama supporters.

Obama fans jammed WGN's phone lines and sent in hundreds of protest e-mails. The message was clear to anyone who would follow Mr. Rosenberg's example. We will make trouble for you if you let anyone make the case against The One.

Other Obama supporters have threatened critics with criminal prosecution. In September, St. Louis County Circuit Attorney Bob McCulloch and St. Louis City Circuit Attorney Jennifer Joyce warned citizens that they would bring criminal libel prosecutions against anyone who made statements against Mr. Obama that were "false." I had been under the impression that the Alien and Sedition Acts had gone out of existence in 1801-'02. Not so, apparently, in metropolitan St. Louis. Similarly, the Obama campaign called for a criminal investigation of the American Issues Project when it ran ads highlighting Mr. Obama's ties to Mr. Ayers.

These attempts to shut down political speech have become routine for liberals. Congressional Democrats sought to reimpose the "fairness doctrine" on broadcasters, which until it was repealed in the 1980s required equal time for different points of view. The motive was plain: to shut down the one conservative-leaning communications medium, talk radio. Liberal talk-show hosts have mostly failed to draw audiences, and many liberals can't abide having citizens hear contrary views.

To their credit, some liberal old-timers - like House Appropriations Chairman David Obey - voted against the "fairness doctrine," in line with their longstanding support of free speech. But you can expect the "fairness doctrine" to get another vote if Barack Obama wins and Democrats increase their congressional majorities.

Corporate liberals have done their share in shutting down anti-liberal speech, too. "Saturday Night Live" ran a spoof of the financial crisis that skewered Democrats like House Financial Services Chairman Barney Frank and liberal contributors Herbert and Marion Sandler, who sold toxic-waste-filled Golden West to Wachovia Bank for $24 billion. Kind of surprising, but not for long. The tape of the broadcast disappeared from NBC's Web site and was replaced with another that omitted the references to Mr. Frank and the Sandlers. Evidently NBC and its parent, General Electric, don't want people to hear speech that attacks liberals.

Then there's the Democrats' "card check" legislation that would abolish secret ballot elections in determining whether employees are represented by unions. The unions' strategy is obvious: Send a few thugs over to employees' homes - we know where you live - and get them to sign cards that will trigger a union victory without giving employers a chance to be heard.

Once upon a time, liberals prided themselves, with considerable reason, as the staunchest defenders of free speech. Union organizers in the 1930s and 1940s made the case that they should have access to employees to speak freely to them, and union leaders like George Meany and Walter Reuther were ardent defenders of the First Amendment.

Today's liberals seem to be taking their marching orders from other quarters. Specifically, from the college and university campuses where administrators, armed with speech codes, have for years been disciplining and subjecting to sensitivity training any students who dare to utter thoughts that liberals find offensive. The campuses that once prided themselves as zones of free expression are now the least free part of our society.

Obama supporters who found the campuses congenial and Mr. Obama himself, who has chosen to live all his adult life in university communities, seem to find it entirely natural to suppress speech they don't like and seem utterly oblivious to claims this violates the letter and spirit of the First Amendment. In this campaign, we have seen the coming of the Obama thugocracy, suppressing free speech, and we may see its flourishing in the four or eight years ahead.

• Michael Barone is a nationally syndicated columnist.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. "Benjamin Franklin" 1759

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Bev
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Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by Bev »

Justin, I'm jealous that you get to go run dogs, I'm still at work. Thank you for the apologies to the others. You are a hot-headed fart, often speak too quickly, and then feel badly later for things you've said in anger or irritation.....kinda like me hanging up on you last night. Chief Long Hair and I didn't get done with the trial paperwork and clean-up until 7:30, then still had the 3-hour drive home with no supper in our bellies. It was 11 pm, I was trying to unpack my car, you knew that, and you were bitching in my ear and pretty much ordering me to remove the Patiotism forum from the board -- telling me a beagle board has no business with a politics forum, blah, blah.

Soooo, that brings me to this:
Get rid of politics and lets just talk about dogs!
I have 3 forums devoted to hunting equipment, guns, kenneling, so we can share best values and product knowledge.
I have 1 forum devoted to laws and legislation that affect our sport so we can stay on top of things.
I have 1 forum devoted to humor, so we can put a smile on somebody's face.
I have 1 forum devoted to patriotism, so we can affect, inspire, debate, and otherwise encourage others to get out and vote.
I have 1 forum devoted to prayer requests so we can lift each other up.
I have 1 forum devoted to "all other" where y'all have your North American Beagle Cup Nascar fun and other things.
I have 17 forums devoted to talking about dogs.

This board is a big ol' meeting place, and the only thing missing is the campfire and the picnic table. Members may come and go into any forum of their choosing, but aren't required to visit the ones that don't interest them, so I can't justify removing the Patriotism forum (that so many do enjoy) because things said in there make you mad, lol. And I didn't feel like arguing about it at 11:00pm on Sunday night, after a long drive, while I was trying to unpack my car and get to bed. I will tell you again what I told you last night... if you don't like the forum, don't post on it...nobody has a gun to your head.

And don't think I'm P.O'd at you, I'm not. It's just not open for discussion. I opened this board way back in 2001 for all to comunicate, not just one.

Have a good run!

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Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by Pike Ridge Beagles »

Bev,
I admire your patience. Some people just are clueless. :
Good thing he knows you or might have hit the road by now. Two threats in one thread. :shock:
Crap stirrer. ;) :vamp: :lol:
F/K'ds

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Bev
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Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by Bev »

:shock: *diiiiiiiiiiiiies*

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Dr. Chris
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Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by Dr. Chris »

Bev wrote::shock: *diiiiiiiiiiiiies*
I personally love these forums. I don’t agree with everything everybody says and I don’t expect others to always agree with me. But when I participate in a debate on this forum or just read others debating, sometimes it has made me take a second glance concerning my views. Many times I have overlooked a lot of biased garbage that some are just repeating from where they read or heard, but other times, whether I want to admit it or not, it has opened my eyes and made me “rethink” and I did a 360 on an issue or two due to some really good thought out debates by some on here. In the end I think it’s been good. I just think some people take it too far to the point it gets too personal. I went to a trial a while back and was with a few friends. 3 of us are Republicans and than there was Jim Lane. Dave, a close friend was trying to make a point concerning McCain and Obama. He said; if you knew a butcher from your local grocery store that was a Christian and a really nice guy and you also knew a heart surgeon but he was an atheist and a real jerk, if you were looking to get a heart transplant would you let the butcher do it because he is the “better” man? Or would you pick the surgeon because he is the most qualified to do the job? Well, Jim speaks up and says; “what if I’m not looking to get a heart transplant, what if I’m looking to get a steak? Who would I see then? I guarantee there are more people hoping to get a steak than a heart transplant.” Dave’s point was he feels Obama is the best person qualified for the job. Jim’s point was you view your candidate your way and I will my way and it also depends on what agenda you’re hoping to accomplish. But by then whatever point Dave was trying to make didn’t matter because Jim blew him out of the water before he got the chance, but he did it in a civil way where we ended up laughing it off and remained friends. I believe if some of you on here met face to face, somebody would get hurt. That’s ridicules!

Oh, and Bev… after a trial several of us went running dogs and they were doing horrible! They were over running, stop & go, hit & miss all day long, evan at the trial. Jim Lane speaks up and tells us that he loves speed but all our dogs need a “dose” of nose. We than got into another debate of whether it was the scent conditions or lack of nose. {It was hot and dry} After about 30 minutes, 2 of us bet Jim $50.00 to bring out a dog that has speed and a tight line, under these conditions. Jim said; “I’ll do better than that, I’ll cut loose an “old broken down has-been” that is long beyond his prime and will run him with your best 3 dogs you have here today.” Well, without getting into the details, as we were handing Jim our $50.00 he finally told us what we were running with. As you more than likely have guessed by now, we were introduced to your Ozzie male that day, the hard way. Of course Jim didn’t take our money; instead he got one last dig in. He handed back the money and told us that he would rather for us to go find a good butcher and buy him a steak, and he added, Ozzie likes his “medium rare”. Now every time I get on this forum and see your logo I’m going to be reminded of that whole fiasco.

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Bev
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Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by Bev »

Dr. Chris, I'm glad you enjoyed ol' Oz-Fest, lol.

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Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by sanfordssj »

wildhare2 wrote:What types of unions are you refering to? I just know this. I pay those dues to have a group of people to fight for what we deserve.
1. Good pay. If I were non-union I would be earning 10 dollars less on the hour.
2. Good health insurance, which by the way I do not pay for out of pocket. It is in my total package which is about 45 dollars per hour
3. Retirement that I don't have to put in to just to get matched.

I know that the teamsters gave all unions bad names, but there are people who actually work for their money in those factories. It's just the lazy ones who give the rest a bad name.

I work, or I don't get paid. They get rid of the lazy one's in my union.
Every man has to make a living union or not!
Unions were started to help the workers safety. Just think what it would be like without them. And all you union haters just remember this one thing.
Everytime we get a raise so do you in some little way. You want us to make more so that you make more.

Also the hoffa thing was just a joke
Wildhare,
I'm a member of the teamster’s local 184 and I don't agree with anything you have to say when it comes to how great the Union is! I make the same; if not more than you, have the same benefits, etc.... But, the union is a JOKE! We pay these guys $500,000 a year to represent us and they just take our money and laugh! We pay, or have given up raises for everything we have and the union just pat it’s self on the back like they did something. The union has slowly brought the working nation to its knee's with its multiple trades in the manufacturing world. The last few years they have waken up and decided that they better go to a mutlicraft work force and start working with management to actually get work done or else all manufacturing will be shipped outside our borders. The 30 plus year guys i work with don't deserve to be there in my opinion. They cry and moan at the sight of work, and bitch about everything. These guys are the old timers who will never change and ultimately have a job just because the union protects them. If you really think the union is that great you need to wake up my friend. We are lucky that they have decided to change, but is it too late? The automobile industry and the UNION workers have brought this downward spin to themselves! I would love to be a spider on the wall and see them guys have to actually start working!

I’m glad you think the teamster’s are great, but I’m sorry you haven’t figured out how corrupt and outdated they are as well! The union’s can be revitalized and brought back to power in the future because we will most likely need them again here real soon. But, never trust them and always sleep with one eye open! I can go on and on with this but this is where I’m just going to stop. Read Bev’s post a few times and think about what she is saying because she has nailed it!
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bluegrass
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Re: Obama or McCain?

Post by bluegrass »

Uh, Sanford??? :shock: :shock: :shock:


Have you had some sort of epiphany while you have been gone??


If so, welcome to the fold...if not, well.... :roll:



BTW, check out the Drudge Report today for info about a recent poll taken where Obama leads by 2 points 44-42 % but they sampled over 800 Democrats and only 650 Republicans...sounds like a fair poll huh.


Tony
The 1st amendment allows the usual liberal narcissistic "I think.." which is how they start all their sentences.

The second amendment protects us from implementing "I think"

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