Murray Energy lays off 150 workers-Coal

Bunnyblaster · Post by **Bunnyblaster** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:29 am

So just so I understand all of this correctly.........

1. Romney apparently made the statement you just quoted and Romney is responsible for the plant closing in Massachusetts, not the E.P.A. Which as coal burning plants close coal mining facilities won't be far behind so he would be responsible for that too?

2. Obama made a similar statement(maybe a little more "politically correct") by saying they need to clean up which he also followed up by saying regulations will be so strict that it will be cost prohibitive to burn coal so eventually they will go out of business anyway even if they do. So either close now because you're not meeting the standards or spend a bunch of money to come up to the standards and go out of business anyway because you will go bankrupt. Again, as coal burning plants continue to close so will coal mines as there will be no demand for the coal. But in his case earlier you stated it is because of the E.P.A. not because of Obama? And on that same note if they were not truly meeting standards in the past then what in the he!! are we spending our tax dollars on the E.P.A. for in the first place?! See again nobody be it the government or in this case the coal plants are willing to take responsibility for their owns actions. The only difference is the government has the power to force companies out of business even if they themselves are partly to blame for the mess in the first place.

You can't just point out specifics from Romney and gloss over the things the President says. That is in general my issue with most people regardless of what side they are on. Just try to remember, there are 2 sides to every story and when people base a decision on only part of the information they are making a misinformed decision. One of this country's biggest issues is the people don't do their part to inform themselves and only go off of the things they hear from the media and read on the internet.......and both can be either taken out of context or sometimes just out and out lies. While I don't deny that guys like Glen and Rush generally show right wingers in a good light it also works the same in reverse when it comes to the major media outlets. I can't tell you how many times I've heard one of Rush's shows and then watched it selectively replayed in the media later that same day intentionally taken out of context. If you aren't willing to listen to all sides then you are not qualified to speak intelligently about the issues or make a judgement on someone's character. And when I say "you" I am referring to anyone, not just you yourself.

Rabbithoundjb · Post by **Rabbithoundjb** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:46 am

Thats a good post bunnyblaster but your debating ignorance. Bush has been gone for years, the dems have had control of government for 6 years, Romney hasn't even been president, niether has the tea party or Grover Norquist but its all their fault. Oh I forgot about Beck and Rush who have never held elected office. Amazing isn't it. Lastly it has to be Sarah Palins fault.

S.R.Patch · Post by **S.R.Patch** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:32 pm

Rabbithoundjb wrote:IS ROMNEY THE PRESIDENT CLOSING COAL PLANTS AND WATCHING MINERS LOOSE THEIR JOBS. NO!!!!!!!!

No President is closing coal plants, the "owners" are choosing whether to upgrade or mothball small sometimes 60 yr old plants that they can't recoup the cost of adding scrubbers and Nox controls.
Some of them are being converted to gas burners tho...
Incurring added cost when demand and pricing is low is a bad timing combination but they knew the day was coming. Thank goodness those in the decision making positions got regulation relaxed so they could set themselves up with "golden umbrellas" when the storm hits...maybe another Co, will hire them for their talent...nothing like seeing new executives come onboard from other failed Companies...

Rabbithoundjb · Post by **Rabbithoundjb** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:51 pm

So Patch why isn't the president subsidizing these energy companies as he has others. Who's the president in office when these companies are closing. Bush didn't sign Nafta or the commnunity reinvestment act but he gets the blame for jobs leaving and the economy collapsing. You leftist can't have it both ways even though you think you can. How many of these former failed executives are in Obamas administration. HHHHMMMMM might explain why the economy is still in the tank, huh.

Bunnyblaster · Post by **Bunnyblaster** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:31 pm

Come on, they are choosing to close the plants because they can't afford to operate any longer. I'm sure it's a combination of everything that has been mentioned that has gotten them to this point but regulations are definitely a part of the equation although not totally to blame. And to top it off the point is to make a buck or a billion.......name one company that is not looking to maximize it's profits......hence sending jobs out of the country. I've never heard one complaint about McDonald's making too much money and they pay almost bottom dollar to their employees and provide little to no benefits that I am aware of. Do they get a pass simply because they don't provide something that is a necessity? Haven't any of you ever switched jobs to increase your income and/or benefits because I sure know I have. Companies will charge whatever the market will bare or they go out of business. And besides that it's easy to sit on the sidelines and complain about how any company operates when most people personally don't have any "skin in the game". Arbitrarily adjusting prices or subsidizing companies creates a false idea that a company can make it.......i.e. green energy.......it'll come but it ain't there yet. Am I under the false illusion that every or even most companies out there care more about the employees than the bottom line? No. Do I think there are some greedy rich people out there? Yes. But ask me if I think most employees care more about the company they work for their their own personal bottom line and the answer is still no. Over the years there has been a loss of respect and loyalty between companies and employees from both sides. It's a give and take that should work both ways. We are arguing about one small part of a HUGE equation that we never seem to find a balance to. All I know is this, bad economy is not the time to be doing anything to push more companies into closing the doors. I know when I'm tight on money I don't go looking for places to spend more money.

S.R.Patch · Post by **S.R.Patch** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:59 pm

I guess I just refuse to cave in to the need for Corporate welfare, the banks knew they were getting into trouble but they thought "hey", if we all do it they'll have to save us(to big to fail), the over build and inflated bubble was allowed to be created, debt enslaves us all.

When the old power plants were allowed to run under the grandfather clause, the Companies knew the timeline and there choice has been to delay till the inevitable,... and under the current climate of events, maybe it was the rite one to let them go an not invest the money, maybe they knew fracking was coming an gas is the new oilfield and gas turbines are the future for now.(money never sleeps)

Pine Lakes · Post by **Pine Lakes** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:46 pm

S.R.Patch wrote:I guess I just refuse to cave in to the need for Corporate welfare, the banks knew they were getting into trouble but they thought "hey", if we all do it they'll have to save us(to big to fail), the over build and inflated bubble was allowed to be created, debt enslaves us all.

When the old power plants were allowed to run under the grandfather clause, the Companies knew the timeline and there choice has been to delay till the inevitable,... and under the current climate of events, maybe it was the rite one to let them go an not invest the money, maybe they knew fracking was coming an gas is the new oilfield and gas turbines are the future for now.(money never sleeps)

Are you a supporter of the Auto Bailout and "Green Energy" grants?

bluemouse · Post by **bluemouse** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:47 pm

I think PATCH IS SAYING ITS TIME TO DUST OFF THE OLD MONEY FOR SOME NEW MONEY( OR MO MONEY )

Pine Mt Beagles · Post by **Pine Mt Beagles** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:50 pm

Re: Murray Energy lays off 150 workers-Coal
by Bunnyblaster » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:29 am

So just so I understand all of this correctly.........

1. Romney apparently made the statement you just quoted and Romney is responsible for the plant closing in Massachusetts, not the E.P.A. Which as coal burning plants close coal mining facilities won't be far behind so he would be responsible for that too?

I never said any thing that you could even in a Republican twisted ignorant mind remotely close to or did I imply ThatRomney closed any plant of any kind.I simply posted something he had said ,But that is to be expected ,Romney is an idiot even for some one from the Planet Kolob,
And The President said the coal plant's would have to clean up and I do in fact agree if they don't want to spend the money to clean them up shut them down ,and don't give it a second thought -Because when they were putting their money in the Cayman Island's ,,instead of upgrading their plant's -they did not give that a second thought.

2. Obama made a similar statement(maybe a little more "politically correct") by saying they need to clean up which he also followed up by saying regulations will be so strict that it will be cost prohibitive to burn coal so eventually they will go out of business anyway even if they do. So either close now because you're not meeting the standards or spend a bunch of money to come up to the standards and go out of business anyway because you will go bankrupt. Again, as coal burning plants continue to close so will coal mines as there will be no demand for the coal. But in his case earlier you stated it is because of the E.P.A. not because of Obama? And on that same note if they were not truly meeting standards in the past then what in the he!! are we spending our tax dollars on the E.P.A. for in the first place?! See again nobody be it the government or in this case the coal plants are willing to take responsibility for their owns actions. The only difference is the government has the power to force companies out of business even if they themselves are partly to blame for the mess in the first place.

You can't just point out specifics from Romney and gloss over the things the President says. That is in general my issue with most people regardless of what side they are on. Just try to remember, there are 2 sides to every story and when people base a decision on only part of the information they are making a misinformed decision. One of this country's biggest issues is the people don't do their part to inform themselves and only go off of the things they hear from the media and read on the internet.......and both can be either taken out of context or sometimes just out and out lies. While I don't deny that guys like Glen and Rush generally show right wingers in a good light it also works the same in reverse when it comes to the major media outlets. I can't tell you how many times I've heard one of Rush's shows and then watched it selectively replayed in the media later that same day intentionally taken out of context. If you aren't willing to listen to all sides then you are not qualified to speak intelligently about the issues or make a judgement on someone's character. And when I say "you" I am referring to anyone, not just you yourself.

First Rush Limbaugh
Is a confessed drug dealer, a felon ,who used an illegal immigrant to smuggle his dope ,into the country a ow life Piece of trash ,and should never be allowed to imprint his stupidity on the AMERICAN PUBLIC,
And Glen Beck -is a NAZI -piece of trash that should not be allowed to Transmit his trash on the air way's -,Just to Compare these two low life scum bag's to any one is an insult.
And the main stream media is Republican ,And I do in fact listen to both sides you cannot debate with out knowing both sides of an issue that is why the Republican's regular's posting here can't debate they are so partisan-and just pain one sided most of the time they don't even know what they are saying.

I watched every Romney -add ,that I could and watched every speech he made -I never found ---one ---true statement in any of his speeches and his add's were pathetic -nothing more than blatant lies.
He was a fake ,an empty shell.Republican's are finally telling the truth about him thing's they would not say until after American's soundly rejected him.

Chuck Prather · Post by **Chuck Prather** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:48 pm

PMB did Rush use Obama to smuggle his drugs for him? Just curious because you said ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT! LOL

Newt · Post by **Newt** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:51 pm

How about "coroprate welfare" for companies building plants in China?

(Reuters) - General Motors Co (GM.N) and its Chinese joint-venture partners said on Wednesday they plan to build a $1 billion auto assembly plant in the city of Chongqing as the GM group bids to remain the leader in the world's largest auto market.

GM, SAIC Motor Corp (600104.SS) and Wuling Motors Holdings Ltd (0305.HK) said they will begin construction of the plant early next year, pending government approvals. The 6.6 billion Chinese yuan ($1.06 billion) first phase is scheduled to start in 2015.

The plant in southwestern China will have annual production capacity of 400,000 vehicles, but the partners did not disclose what vehicles will be built there. It also will have the capacity to build 400,000 engines annually, a GM spokesman said.

S.R.Patch · Post by **S.R.Patch** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:01 am

Pine Lakes wrote:
S.R.Patch wrote:I guess I just refuse to cave in to the need for Corporate welfare, the banks knew they were getting into trouble but they thought "hey", if we all do it they'll have to save us(to big to fail), the over build and inflated bubble was allowed to be created, debt enslaves us all.

When the old power plants were allowed to run under the grandfather clause, the Companies knew the timeline and there choice has been to delay till the inevitable,... and under the current climate of events, maybe it was the rite one to let them go an not invest the money, maybe they knew fracking was coming an gas is the new oilfield and gas turbines are the future for now.(money never sleeps)
Are you a supporter of the Auto Bailout and "Green Energy" grants?

I was a supporter of Bushes TARP, he saw what was coming an started to act. I was a supporter of financial stabilization, but the same crooks are still running the banks instead of breaking rocks.
I heard they paid the auto bailout back, but trashed the shareholders while keeping the bondholders solvent, nice move by the Co.
Green energy grants/oil subsidies, all Corporate welfare.

Pine Lakes · Post by **Pine Lakes** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:03 am

S.R.Patch wrote: I was a supporter of Bushes TARP, he saw what was coming an started to act. I was a supporter of financial stabilization, but the same crooks are still running the banks instead of breaking rocks.
I heard they paid the auto bailout back, but trashed the shareholders while keeping the bondholders solvent, nice move by the Co.
Green energy grants/oil subsidies, all Corporate welfare.

Then we're pretty much in agreement. I don't even agree with the TARP program because I believe the only way the federal government can provide financial protection to the public is to severely punish the criminals responsible for such problems. I doubt that Bush started to act, I don't think he was smart enough. My guess is that Alan Greenspan made the recomendation to take such action.

The auto bailout is a joke. From the info that I've gathered, GM paid back it's portion with unspent monies. We are now the proud owners of stocks that we paid $58 a share for and are now worth $13 a share the last I checked. Crooked politicians, bankers, welfare abusers, and CEO's all contribute to our problem.

In closing, I guess that I have zero, none, nada faith in the ability of the federal government to make any good financial descisions for our benefit. Unless it's the decsision to stay out of the free market(while protecting US jobs) regardless of ups and downs. Bad business practices should not be rewarded with bailouts. To me, the CEO's and the UAW used the possible loss of employment for union workers, and all those who provided GM and Chrysler with parts and services, to gain leverage for nothing more than a robbery of the U.S. taxpayers. Certain politicians viewed the opportunity to gain votes through misinformation. We were robbed and certain politicians convinced us that the robbers were doing us a favor. Reread last sentence in previous paragragh. I wish I knew President Obama, then I could have told him that I needed a grant for my green energy company(that was never meant to be) and received my millions in tax payer money that did not need to be accounted for.

Bunnyblaster · Post by **Bunnyblaster** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:53 am

Well here's one.......

Pine Mt Beagles wrote:Re: Murray Energy lays off 150 workers-Coal
by rollcenter » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:00 pm

Don't confuse all us Eastern KY guys with PMB, most of us here are proud to go to work everyday, not go to the mailbox for a payday.

Obama and his EPA are crippling this area, I see it everyday. From tighter emission regulations that essentially will kill the burning of coal to the over reaching of the EPA to over see Mountain Top Removal mining.
-
-First -Roll Over

I don't go to the mail box and get My Social Security check,It magically show's up in my account monthly,And just so you know I crawled many of a mile to earn it.

as For the President ,we only had one choice
,---But -fact is The President has done absolutely nothing to coal,the E.P.A. has not been doing their job for year's ,and nothing has changed there ,coal Companies are just using this ,for a excuse to cut wages and lay off people ,so they can hire back later with no benefit's and lower wage's.
A couple of thing's -If you want to help Coal get rid of Mitch McDonnell,and I would advise buying some stock in natural gas,,These power plant's that burn coal are just to greedy to get their plant's up to date and as much ,as I love the coal industry, I like breathing as well -and clean air is not an option it's a necessity,and Global warming is real.

Bunnyblaster · Post by **Bunnyblaster** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:55 am

Then you have this one..........

Pine Mt Beagles wrote:Re: Murray Energy lays off 150 workers-Coal
by rollcenter » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:00 pm

Don't confuse all us Eastern KY guys with PMB, most of us here are proud to go to work everyday, not go to the mailbox for a payday.

Obama and his EPA are crippling this area, I see it everyday. From tighter emission regulations that essentially will kill the burning of coal to the over reaching of the EPA to over see Mountain Top Removal mining.
-
-First -Roll Over

I don't go to the mail box and get My Social Security check,It magically show's up in my account monthly,And just so you know I crawled many of a mile to earn it.

as For the President ,we only had one choice
,---But -fact is The President has done absolutely nothing to coal,the E.P.A. has not been doing their job for year's ,and nothing has changed there ,coal Companies are just using this ,for a excuse to cut wages and lay off people ,so they can hire back later with no benefit's and lower wage's.
A couple of thing's -If you want to help Coal get rid of Mitch McDonnell,and I would advise buying some stock in natural gas,,These power plant's that burn coal are just to greedy to get their plant's up to date and as much ,as I love the coal industry, I like breathing as well -and clean air is not an option it's a necessity,and Global warming is real.

So in this case which is it??? First he has nothing to do with it, then it is his fault.