Obama as President

[Tim H]

Pine Mt. , I don't see you responding to the FACT that the republicans offered a bill that would cost half as much and create twice as many jobs and that is using President Obama's economic advisers numbers. How is it that you do not see that, as the democrats costing us jobs and money? It doesn't have to get worse before it gets better, that is President Obama trying to lower expectations so he won't be held accountable.

Ask yourself this. Why would the democrats reject a bill that would stimulate the economy faster, at half the cost and create twice as many jobs?

[Dr. Chris]

Pine Mt. , I don't see you responding to the FACT that the republicans offered a bill that would cost half as much and create twice as many jobs and that is using President Obama's economic advisers numbers. How is it that you do not see that, as the democrats costing us jobs and money? It doesn't have to get worse before it gets better, that is President Obama trying to lower expectations so he won't be held accountable.

Ask yourself this. Why would the democrats reject a bill that would stimulate the economy faster, at half the cost and create twice as many jobs?

LOLOL where has this "plan" been for the last 8 years? Why are the Republicans just coming up with this miracle plan now?

The things you are stating are simply not true. Pine Mt was right, He did put tax cuts in and they still sat on their hands. Obama met with the Republicans to go out of his way to be fair and to reach across the isle and was greeted with bitterness. And the Republicans did indeed make a pact to vote it down without ever even looking at it. THAT IS A FACT! They made this public in interviews on national television before ever even meeting with Obama. They turned it down, not because of the plan, it was because of who came up with the plan. The rest of the free world knows about and seen it. Do you own a television? The Republican Party just sealed their fate, because when this is successful what then? Not one Republican agreed to it. They all stayed with their “pact” to vote it down. When they are proven wrong just how do you think the upcoming elections will turn out? And if this does prove to be very successful, are you guys going to admit that Obama had a good plan and the Democrats were right and the Republicans were wrong and missed the boat? It is a good plan, it will work. Not only will it work, it has worked in the past for other countries and is presently working in action now in other countries. It’s not only a good plan, it’s our best option that we have.

The republican’s plan is to continue to do more of the same of the last 8 years, has that worked out for us? The Republicans were in the same situation that the Democrats are in now. They made poor decisions. They had their shot and failed. The decisions of the last 8 years are why we are here now. Hold up your whining and crying until the Democrats reach the point of failure. But, when success is reached, give credit where credit is due.

NAFTA? Was indeed passed, there was a change in the presidency before it was signed into law. Clinton signed it into Law but that was Bush’s baby, Clinton just happened to birth it. It is one thing for us to disagree on issues and debate, but some of you guys make stuff up as you go, and you totally ignore the facts and truth.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

[Tim H]

Pine Mt, don't you think before you say the republicans sat on their hands you should look at what they did do?

Unfortunately too many people watch TV and don't think for themselves. I don't care what Fox, CNN, CBS or any of those talking heads want me to think.
A recession is a reduction of a countries GDP (Gross Domestic Product) for at least 2 quarters. This recession didn't start 8 years ago. It started December 2007, which was 1 year after the democrats took over the congress.

LOLOL where has this "plan" been for the last 8 years? Why are the Republicans just coming up with this miracle plan now?

I assume that now every time the republicans put something forward it is invalid in your eyes because they didn't do it 8 years ago.

Dr. Chris, you have never seen any view but your own and I don't expect that to change. You don't add constructive independent thought to any of your posts. 90% of your post consist of you claiming, with no supportive evidence, that whoever you disagree with is not telling the truth. I see no reason for further response from me to your posts.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

[Dr. Chris]

Pine Mt, don't you think before you say the republicans sat on their hands you should look at what they did do?

Unfortunately too many people watch TV and don't think for themselves. I don't care what Fox, CNN, CBS or any of those talking heads want me to think.
A recession is a reduction of a countries GDP (Gross Domestic Product) for at least 2 quarters. This recession didn't start 8 years ago. It started December 2007, which was 1 year after the democrats took over the congress.

LOLOL where has this "plan" been for the last 8 years? Why are the Republicans just coming up with this miracle plan now?

I assume that now every time the republicans put something forward it is invalid in your eyes because they didn't do it 8 years ago.

Dr. Chris, you have never seen any view but your own and I don't expect that to change. You don't add constructive independent thought to any of your posts. 90% of your post consist of you claiming, with no supportive evidence, that whoever you disagree with is not telling the truth. I see no reason for further response from me to your posts.

That’s not true at all. I look at other people’s points of view. I have learned a lot through debates on this board and I acknowledge when I am wrong in an opinion that I may have. I never, ever make a statement on here or anywhere else without being able to back it up with 100% proof. If I give my opinion, that’s just a matter of preference and differences between people. But I never have and never will give a statement “as it being fact” without being able to back it up with facts. View over all of our posts, you, Tony, myself and others and see who degrades, calls names and resorts to childlike behaviour, instead of debating like adults. Not many come on this board to give an “opinion” anymore because they don’t want to be pounced on and told how wrong, ignorant, or stupid they are by one of you guys. Nobody else’s thoughts, opinions or ideas matter, just conforming to yours is all that matters. When somebody has their own opinion or disagrees with you, you don’t ask why, or what made you come to that conclusion, you guys begin to bash them and tell them why they are wrong, and they don’t think for themselves and they watch too much TV. This may be a shock to you, but just like others can learn from you, you guys could learn a thing or two from others. The only way you or Tony will debate or discuss anything with me Pine Mt or anybody else, is if we take back what we may think and/or everybody is willing to agree with you guys and say all Democrats are evil, bad, ignorant and are the blame for all the problems in Washington. And all Republicans are moral, good, intelligent and have all the solutions for all the problems. From the beginning I have always been middle of the road, supporting “some” Republicans and “some” Democrats. I know there is good and bad in both parties. I simply believe that the Republicans had their shot, now before condemning, let the Democrats have theirs. Time will tell. But no matter what, bashing somebody because they don’t share your opinion, never solves anything.

[tinymwoods]

I have been pleasantly surprised by some of what Obama has done. He has agreed with ideas from both parties that he felt would help America. I like that alot. The things I do not like is he has proven he is a liar that said what he had to to get into office. President Barack Obama that says no one who has lobbied on a set of issues within the past two years can take a role in his administration. Here is what he has done:

"The White House on Wednesday defended Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner's choice of Mark Patterson — an ex-lobbyist from Goldman Sachs — to be his chief of staff.Patterson, a Goldman vice president for government relations, acted as a lobbyist on a wide range of issues that could come under his purview in his new job. Under Obama's restrictions.Patterson's former Wall Street firm has benefited from $10 billion in government bailouts in the current recession.The issues on which Patterson acted as a lobbyist until last April appear to cover a large swath of his duties at Treasury, according to a lobbying disclosure report filed with Congress last July."

"The new chief of staff to health reform czar Tom Daschle was a lobbyist through late last year and will have to recuse himself from issues he worked to influence, an administration aide said Thursday. Daschle adviser Mark B. Childress is the second lobbyist to land in the top ranks of the Health and Human Services department and joins at least 12 others who have found jobs in the administration — despite the president’s repeated pledges during the campaign to stamp out their influence in Washington. Bill Corr, who is Obama’s pick to be deputy secretary of health and human services, was an anti-tobacco lobbyist, and will have to recuse himself from tobacco-related issues to comply with the ethics rules."

"William Lynn, the Pentagon's chief financial officer for four years under former President Bill Clinton, currently is a senior vice president at missile-making Raytheon, which posted more than $10 billion in prime Pentagon contracts last year. If confirmed by the Senate, Lynn would work as the Pentagon's top operations manager, with the final approval authority on most if not all contract, program and budget decisions. As a registered Raytheon lobbyist for six years, mandatory reports showed Lynn had sought to persuade Congress and the Pentagon on a "very broad range" of Defense Department programs and issues, Grassley wrote. Financial disclosure records show Lynn is to receive a Raytheon defined benefit pension of $4,300 per month starting January 1, 2019. The same form shows he would be forfeiting Raytheon-awarded shares, not yet "vested" or available for sale, which could have been worth as much as $500,000 were he to stay with the company."

To this and others like it I say BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
Why make an executive order, then break it. Why not just tell the American people "I am going to rehire Clinton's people and lobbyists to run the country. There is no real change in how things are going to be done in Washington". I have been very dissapointed in this. Maybe we should make people running for office swear to their promises under oath so we can hold them to it and get rid of them if they do lie for perjury. I hope things get better and more honest. Let's see how the middle east plays out next I guess since we have already borrowed more from China so that Wall Street can still get thier $18 million in bonuses from my pocket. I think Obama is no worse so far than what McCain would have been, maybe better. I wish him the best.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

[Tim H]

Pine Mt., do the math on the votes in the house and see who drew votes from both party"s and who didn't. The democrats were partisan by the fact they only drew democrat votes for their bill. It was a democrat bill that was put forth by a democrat president and somehow that is bipartisan? I guess being bipartisan means agreeing with the democrats.

The republicans on the other hand were able to draw democrats to vote against this bill. Were those democrats being partisan? It's interesting how the democrats and President Obama claim bipartisanship and yet members of their own party jumped ship and voted with the republicans and then people say the republicans are the ones being partisan.

Are people in congress playing party politics? Yes, both sides are and that occupies most Americans minds, which party to be against, which by default automatically makes them for the opposite party. Look and the numbers, over the years half this country is for the Democrats or Republicans party. It stays fairly evenly split. That also means one half of this country is against the other half succeeding. You have said yourself that you didn't think tax cuts were good but I'll bet if they said you were getting a huge tax cut you would be for tax cuts. It's only when people think the tax cut is for someone else that it is bad. So there are people out there that think if I get some of my money back from the government then they should consider me greedy. This type of thinking gets the same clowns elected every time.

They learn how to speak to keep their base of anger towards the other party motivating people. Some of the things that are put forth have some basis but most of it is rhetoric. Watch the congress as they speak on the floor and you will see who is reasonable and looking for solutions. You will also see who is just speaking politics. I've seen well educated honest and genuine democrats stand on the floor of the house and speak with passion about something they believe will help the people in their district. I've seen the same on the republican side of the isle. I find it easy to quickly identify from both sides when they are just spewing party rhetoric.

[tommyg]

TimH then I belive its time to side with the party thats got the best plan. The Democrat plan is going to win out in the end Queen Nancy will see to it but is it the right plan for the nation or is it the best plan for the Democrats? Its the best plan for the Democrats they dont care about this country they want to stay in power by growing welfare and by make illeagles US citizans and giving them free helth care and tax breaks when they don't pay taxes while letting the working person foot the bill. Democrates are party first as long as they are in power,when they arn't they whine.

[Rabbithoundjb]

PINE MT. you may have point Clinton's people may be able to get us out of this mess since their legislation got us into it.You know my main criticism of Bush has always been his spending philosopy and I don't see any difference with Obama. Sooner better than later somebody is is going to have start cutting government not growing it.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

[Tim H]

Rabbithoundjb, I'm with you on the need to cut spending, not increase it. President Bush was bad enough when it came to his spending philosophy, unfortunately, as the democrats say, it's going to get worse before it gets better. Also, while I don't see it as intellectually honest to say that President Bush started the war in Iraq and lied to do it, I do agree that when it came to setting the policies in the running of the war his administration was not very good at it. We do have to admit that there was not another attack on our soil during his 8 years.

I find it interesting that there are millions of Americans that have overspent and gone beyond their means and not planned for the future. They are feeling the pain of that lesson now. Yet the democrats are saying the answer to this economic crisis is to spend beyond our means and not worry about how we are going to pay for it in the future. That is the equivalent of all these laid off over extended families thinking they could fix their financial crisis by borrowing more money to start a business so they could have a job. In addition, the business they start isn't even going to pay the loan they took out to start it, so now they owe even more.

[bluegrass]

Pine Mountain, I think we can finally start to agree...people ARE hurting and are looking for answers. But in MY OPINION, and that of a LOT of other folks, the GOVERNMENT isnt the answer, they are the PROBLEM...when/if the American people stop looking to Washington to fix everything wrong in the world things will start to get done. Sounds like a bit of an oxymoron I agree, but the MORE that Government gets involved, the LESS that gets done.


Government starts and implements programs that they say are designed to "help" people...and for a short time they might do just that...but tell me this: What problem, social or fiscal, has ANY government program SOLVED? Not just addressed or is working on, but SOLVED? I cannot think of one. And to top it off, when GOVERNMENT begins a program, it is ENDLESS...welfare should have NEVER been a way of life, yet we have generations that depend on it and there is no end in sight for the entitlement mentality that it has fostered. I dont agree with this idea of spending our way out of the financial mess we are in...government shouldn't be owning ANY businesses, banks, mortgage companies or houses. But thats exactly where we are now. SOCIALIST and COMMUNIST governments OWN these things, not a FREE COUNTRY like the US. When you start sliding down the bannister of government ownership of private enterprises you have stopped being a free market society and have become the very thing we have fought against as a nation for over 200 years. SOCIALIST. Pure and simple SOCIALISM.

As for OBAMA's role in this... let me point this out, and I dont think ANYONE, even you Dr Chris, can argue against it. When OBAMA was in campaign mode, he PROMISED that 95% of the US would get a TAX CUT. He also said that trying to fix the economy was top priority. INSTEAD, his first acts have been to order Gitmo closed, which does NOTHING for the economy but puts all Americans at increased risk from future attack by these scumbags should they make it to US soil. His next acts were to start reversing the ban on US funding of overseas abortion programs. Again, this does NOTHING for the economy but adds NEW spending to it, thereby causing more strain on an already weakening system. Then he proposes a so called STIMULUS PLAN that even his own economic advisors admit only uses 11% of it for ECONOMIC STIMULUS...where does the rest go? Pork barrel spending, thats where. He is against torture for terrorists yet thinks its OK for the American public to fund ABORTIONS worldwide...strange indeed. I am still waiting for the legislation that he said was going to happen regarding the 95% of us getting a tax cut...I wont hold my breath though




Tony

[Pine Mt Beagles]

TONY
I WILL WHOLE HEARTLY AGREE ON THE GOVERNMENT SPENDING.IT HAS TO STOP .OR AT LEAST SLOW DOWN TO A CRAWL.I KNOW PEOPLE THAT ARE 4 GENERATIONS DEEP LIVING IN PROJECTS ON WELL FAIR GETTING HEATING ASSISTANCE FOOD STAMPS ETC,THAT SUCKS,WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO PAY FOR SOME OF THESE YOUNG PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT DISABLED JUST PLAIN SORRY,,,, IT IS NOT WHAT THE PROGRAM WAS INTENDED FOR ..AND I WAS A FEDERAL MINE INSPECTOR UNDERGROUND,I KNOW FIRST HAND THAT, IF THE GOVERNMENT GETS INVOLVED THEY HAVE A WAY OF COMPLICATING THINGS' SO NO ONE KNOWS WHAT HECK' IS GOING ON,AND ONCE THEY GET IN ,YOU CAN'T GET THEM OUT, AND AS FOR AS --OBAMA'S TAX CUTS I THINK'' THAT IS WHAT IS IN THIS'' SO CALLED STIMULAS PLAN,,IT HAS ONLY BEEN A LITTLE OVER A WEEK WE MIGHT CONSIDER GIVING HIM A LITTLE MORE TIME ,SINCE WE DON'T HAVE MUCH CHOICE ANYWAY,,,ON THIS ABORTION THING I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THEY WERE GOING TO STOP FUNDING FOR ANY KIND OF ABORTION,,--------OLE-- TIM H-- HAS HAD ME READING MORE ON DIFFERENT SUBJECTS THESE LAST COUPLE WEEKS AND GETTING EDUCATED ,AND DON'T GET ME WRONG I APPRECIATE, IT. I HAVE LEARNED A LOT FROM THIS THREAD,NOW THAT SAID I DON'T NECESSARILYY AGREE WITH ALL OF IT,BUT I ALWAYS TRY TO KEEP AN OPEN MIND,IT HAS BEEN A GOOD DEBATE,,
PINE MT