14 Billion Auto Bailout Dies in Senate

[tommyg]

I hope no one looses their job in the auto industry,but the Greedy Unions don't care about the workers all they see is dollar signs. This downswing has cut our business we are cut back to a 5 day operating posture from a 7 day. Bottom line is Government spending--way out of control and about to get worse. We will all be lucky to have a job next year. I don't blame it on the war I blame it on deregulation and government programs for people who don't want to work,free health care for illeagles,welfare,pork spending,just to mention a few. This nations leaders are the out of control elite,buying votes with handouts. Barney Frank and his liberal ilk forced Freddie and Fanny to make high risk loans to people who couldn't pay them back is what started this but you don't see Frank takeing any of the responsibilty for this mess,sorry leader ship.

[yellowdog]

what happened to the millions of dollars the government made on the loan they gave chrysler in the 70's did they ever give it back to the working people that paid that money in so they could use it ?...answer is no we saw nothing what did happen tho is they increased spending on welfare and for those lazy ass disability people that hunt and fish seven days a week when they ought to have their asses working same as me..they are gonna have to get control on welfare and disability abuseres before anything in my opinion....

[Pine Mt Beagles]

WELL I GUESS IT WILL GET WORSE BEFORE IT GETS BETTER.--------""14 BILLION"" TO HELP HOLD JOBS, FOR PEOPLE THAT WORK, PAY TAXES AND SPEND THEIR MONEY IN THE COMMUNITIES STORES" COMPARED TO THE "700 BILLION"FOR THE RICH BANKERS TO PARTY ON,AND IF YOU WORK FOR 15 ,20 OR MORE YEARS AND GET DISABLED,GET YOURSELF A CARD BOARD BOX, AND PICK THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD GARBAGE FOR FOOD,OUR GOVERNMENT NEEDS YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY, THAT YOU PAID IN AND YOUR RETIREMENT,, TO SEND TO AFRICA OR REBUILD IRAQ,OR CHINA OR NORTH KOREA,OR TO GIVE OUR MONEY TO THESE FOREIGN AUTO MAKERS SO THEY CAN START NEW BUSINESS'ES(WONDER HOW MUCH KICK BACK THESE GOVERNORS GET FROM THESE FOREIGN AUTO MAKERS) ,OR BUY SOME OF THESE ILLEGALS A HOTEL AND PUT THEM IN BUSINESS(THAT IS MUCH BETTER THAN INVESTING IT BACK INTO AMERICA),OR GIVE IT, TO THE TOP 5 % OF THE RICHEST PEOPLE IN AMERICA THAT DON'T PAY TAXES SIT BACK HIRE ILLEGALS TO DO THEIR WORK."""""HECK JUST FACE IT IF YOU WORK FOR A MINIMUM WAGE OR JUST A LITTLE BETTER YOU ARE NOTHING, JUST IN THE WAY ,AND OH MY GOD IF YOU ARE CRAZY ENOUGH TO WANT SOME THING BETTER, LIKE A" UNION" JOB, FAIR PAY ,DESCENT HOURS, RETIREMENT,HEALTH CARE ,THEN MAN YOU ARE JUST HELL BOUND,,,,,,,,,,,THE NEW AMERIXICAN WAY.
PINE MT BEAGLES

[lab]

Lets blame everything on the Unions. Go back and see why Unions were formed. companies for years took advantage of the workers. We needed unions to step in and give the working class people a fair shake when it comes to salaries and benefits. for most of you out there if it wasn't for Unions you would be working for minimum wage with no benefits. Most small companies try and pay a descent salary so Unions will not be started up at there plant. There is no doubt that some Unions got a little to big and requested much more then they needed. I think if we let the car companies go under we are heading for one great depression. I live in a small town and the factories in our town and neighboring town are laying off or closing down because most of them do business for the car companies. The government would love to see the Unions bust. Then Big Companies could start screwing the middle class once again if there is a middle class anymore. When you look at the Big 3 U.S. companies vs the forgein automobile factories the salaries are about the same. It is in the benefits where the U.S. Big 3 makes so much. Remember when the Unions were fighting for the working class people there was not such things as 401 K. I know they have lost alot of money in 401's but in the long haul if you invest in one and the way some companies match it you will come out with alot more money then these people are getting for retirement that never had anything like this to join. The retires that get a pension from these big 3 car companies need that money to survive. Anymore social Security will not be enough to live on. With the price of medicine and hospital bills if it wasn't for the Health benefits that go along with most retires packages they would not be able to survive.Remember the U.S. has the most expensive health Care in the World when it comes to medicine and hospitals.When you add all that up it does look like the workers are getting alot. Our government has let many of these companies leave the U.S. for cheap labor but the products coming back across are not that much cheaper. I think we need to put the Tariff Tax back where it will cost these other countries to much to ship there product over here. I may make some people mad but Farmers in the U.S. has one of the best Unions in the World. They may not call it a Union but they have people out there fighting for them all the times. Farmers can get paid for letting there land just sit in weeds. They are guarateed a set price for there crops if they have a drought the government steps in and pays them for there pasture fields. So much more. When you look at tax breaks a farmer has they have it made.Most produts they buy are tax free.Think how much money the government gives to agriculture each year. You do not hear us cry becuase we need the food and the sitaside fields are good for the wildlife ..Being from a small rural area I have many agriculture buddies that tell me how much they make and what they have to buy so they can get by on not paying taxes. So what I am saying if we can give to all these other forms of occupations out there then why not bailout the Bigt 3 because we know many peoples jobs in the U.S. depend upon them.

[tommyg]

Yea now unions take advantage of companys and workers. Unions were good at a time when the worker needed help but then just like the government they got greedy.

[wildhare2]

Not all unions are that way tommyg. I do agree that the greed of some give most others bad names. Take for example the union I am in. We don't get sick days, holliday pay, 90% sub pay, shutdown pay, and alot of other stuff. If WE don't work, We don't get paid. I have plenty of friends that are in the UAW and they even say that alot of things that happen are rediculous. Take away the sub pay and let them get unemployement, get rid of the dead asses that just collect a paycheck and don't work, and then see what happens with the auto industry. But, I will also state that change has to start at the top with the executives. BIG PAY CUT THERE! 87 million, that is crazy. Hell if they cut 80 million out that would boost the profits right there. I think that the government started a bad thing because now every company that is getting in a bind with money will just ask the government for more driving the value of a dollar down even lower. Toyota is union and you don't see them having big money problems right now!

[foxxy]

I didn't think Toyota was i have many Friends that work down at the Princeton plant.
but any ways i agree get rid of the lazy asses do like Toyota does and if their is no work send them in to the surrounding communities
and they paint cut grass weed eat, any thing Prineton or surounding town need help with labor wise the will help if thy can. Toyota is pround they have not laid off anyon that is hired on with them. the reason is 42 dallars an hout to 80 plus

[green river]

Where are the union Toyota plants? I've never heard of one.

[foxxy]

i don't think there is a Toyota union plant

[yellowdog]

one thing you are not realizing here..toyota,hyundai,nissan and the likes are not paying out to 360,000 retirees like gm for example it cost them around 13 billion in pensions.. foreign companies havent been buildin here long enough to have a huge number of retired workers..not to mention a huge portion of their earnings go back over seas..not stickin up for these 80 dollar an hour people just stating the facts..

[foxxy]

i am not either but for a worker to be not working and still make 95 % of his pay is just stupid
where i work it cost my company 79 to 85 dollars hour per employee
if we are out of work we dont half are pay
i think th union is where there down fall is

[wildhare2]

Foxxy,

I know the one that makes the Tundra truck is a union shop. I don't know if they are UAW or not, but they are union. The only unions that I know that pay sub pay are UAW. I am in one and I don't get it. Layoff means Unemployement for us. I totally agree that their costs are way way way to high. But, you can't expect for the workers to take pay cuts and not the executives. JMO

[bluegrass]

But, you can't expect for the workers to take pay cuts and not the executives. JMO




AGREED



Tony

[S.R.Patch]

I didn't think Toyota was i have many Friends that work down at the Princeton plant.
but any ways i agree get rid of the lazy asses do like Toyota does and if their is no work send them in to the surrounding communities
and they paint cut grass weed eat, any thing Prineton or surounding town need help with labor wise the will help if thy can. Toyota is pround they have not laid off anyon that is hired on with them. the reason is 42 dallars an hout to 80 plus

I think you need to gather all information, as you are comparing apples and oranges, Toy vrs American.
Toy is loaded with temporary help or what are known as Temps. This is how they brag about not laying anyone off, the temps are all gone now, no jobs, but they never laid off any full time help. Also alot of their work is subcontracted or subed-out, so that won't show up either.
I think the headlines this week showed Toy reporting losses, soon you will see the true Toy Co. We have many Temps around that have lost their jobs with toy, one I know got the ax for a torn pocket on their uniform shirt, that all they need to say, "your out".
One Toy plant is shut down in Princeton, where did all those workers go if no layoffs? They were filled with Temp help that got low wages and no benefits, their jobs were in jeopardy constantly. Now they are all gone and they only have enough full time employees to run one plant, that must mean 50% of their employees were part time help.
You guys need to learn all the facts before you go shooting the American union worker in the foot. They set the standard for the rest of America and the World.

[bluegrass]

You guys need to learn all the facts before you go shooting the American union worker in the foot. They set the standard for the rest of America and the World.





So based on THIS statement, every automaker in the world SHOULD have their hands out for a bailout??




Tony