14 Billion Auto Bailout Dies in Senate

[Pine Mt Beagles]

[S.R.Patch]

Pine Mt,
I could work for you only because you see it from both sides.
We took a $1.50 cut, insurance copay went up 20%, I am glad to have my job. We pay in to unemployment, get paid 4 sick days a year, get 10 holidays paid but usually have to work them all, make .50 an hr extra for working weekends only get a weekend off every other month, 28 day shift rotation. Feels like I worked through my kids growing up. After 31 years, shift work is like a hangover, hurts more than they used to. After all these years I get paid more now for what I know rather than how many times I bend my back, I'll never apologize for what I've earned and am grateful to a Company that's motto was, "we take pride in the job we do".
A lot of things have gotten out of whack during the "times of plenty", accountability and real job knowledge are only two of the main ones we're dealing with on both side of the fence now. There is such a thing as "too much of a good thing", bad for the constitution ...

[Pine Mt Beagles]

[bluegrass]

BLUEGRASS,--I KNOW THIS IS A SHOCK BUT SOME PEOPLE ARE INDEPENDENT,NOT REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT,IF AMERICANS DON'T GET PAST THE IDEA OF (IF I DON'T LIKE IT THEN IT'S WRONG) THINKING WE ARE IN FOR SOME TOUGH TIMES.




What does that have to do with anything??? I hate to inform you pal, but since you and your ilk have voted this socialist in office we are GUARANTEED to have hard times, no matter what our "thinking" is...As for the unions and wages, et al, it doesnt matter what your political persuasion is if you have the ability and desire to think rationally...its not the Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Nissan, take your pic, plants in the US that are screaming for a "bailout" so they can continue business as usual, its the AMERICAN companies with the UNIONS that are in trouble...connect the dots if you dare.


Tony

[Dr. Chris]

It's not "union greed", its union survival. If you look at it, it's not the wages at all.




Dr Chris, for once you are correct, but NOT in the way you meant it with the rest of your post...it is about wages, UNION BOSSES' WAGES...the rank and file have been lavished with "benefits" that used to be called fringe benefits, now they are seen as a right and are demanded by greedy union bosses who in turn help create greedy line workers by telling them that Health Benefits with no weekly premium, pay for striking, pay for not working and endless unemployment benefits are the norm...a restructuring is what is needed, not a bailout so that business as usual can go on.


Does anyone here share in the irony that as recently as this past spring the BIG THREE were being castigated, castrated and villified by the liberals in this country for being some of the biggest polluters, obstructionists to progress, etc, and NOW they (liberals) start screaming about how the BIG THREE MUST BE SAVED...hell, Michael Moore even made a movie that tried to cast GM in the worst possible light, now HE is calling on the Government to bail out GM...hypocrites to the very end. Its all about control and the Libs in Congress want that control so they can force us to drive and buy what THEY say is best for us...not what we WANT, but what Government deems we NEED...I for one say THANK GOD ALMIGHTY for Sen Mitch McConnell and those that helped put the kybosh on this crap...furthermore to HE.LL with President Bush if he circumvents the will of the people and uses that other money intended for WALL STREET (another fiasco) to bail out the car makers.



Tony

You are right, I stand corrected. When you are talking about Union Bosses' Wages it is about the wages and they are out of hand and beyond. But what was going thru my mind when I made those comments were the avg. everyday workers, not the CEO's.

[wildhare2]

Hey Bluegrass,


Toyota is UNION. They are a UAW shop! Some of the others you mentioned have unions there too. It's not so much the union, but which contracts they signed up for. There was just a big Honda plant built here and guess what. The job was built by UNION construction trades and it got done before it was scheduled to be done and under budget!

[Pine Mt Beagles]

[tommyg]

Bluegrass theres just no telling the truth to Bush haters. They don't want to hear it,hate blinds them. Pine Mtn conservatives havn't controled congress sence Regan,right now its Moderate at best,but there are a few conservatives left thank God. Say and think what you want Obama is a Liberal and you'll see it rear its ugly head soon. Union Greed drove jobs from this Nation and thats the bottom line,NAFTA sealed the deal. Democruds Bitch about big business and the rich well if you don't have them who will create jobs? Thats what America is about success if they are Greedy then the Lord almighty will deal with them,but the Democruds think they know whats best for us so they want to run your life,well big Government is the problem hence Liberal Democruds. Raise taxes so we can have all the pork spending we can stand,and put more sheepole on welfare so we can buy votes and control them. Sorry Party---Communist at best.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

[tommyg]

Yes I have heard of thee things. Bush is a moderate at best but he is leaning left,he done a good job for 6 years the last 2 have been a joke. Obama is more to the left than Bush and what Bush wants may come true under Obama. I still don't belive in Bailouts for anyone but the American people,we need bailed out from out of control Government spending. To many ethnic groups to try to please. TR said it best " Theres only room in America for 100% Americans",I have no problem with legal immigration heck thats how my family got here but I do have a problem with illegals trying to have a voice in a Nation thats not there home and legals that protest the US for trying to keep them out. Sorry if you want to be here jump thru the hoops and become AMERICAN. Coal is in danger,there won't be any drilling under the Democruds,we will be in this mess for years and Obamas plan will put us in the worst Debt this nation has ever seen.

[Pine Mt Beagles]

TOMMYG
I AGREE WITH YOU ON GOVERNMENT SPENDING,.AND A 100% ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION,I THINK COAL IS GOING TO HAVE SOME SEARIOUS PROBLEMS,AND I THINK THE DEBT WILL GROW,AND THESE ETHNIC GROUPS ARE TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL.AND ON THE AMERICAN'S BEING BAILED FROM THE GOVERNMENT,THAT WOULD BE GREAT I JUST DON'T SEE HOW IT WOULD BE POSSABLE,SINCE WHAT THE POLITICANS SAY IS ,,IT IS EVERY ONE'S FAULT BUT MINE AND BLAME EVERYONE.
PINE MT BEAGLES

[yellowdog]

i have been in the auto industry a long time check out some of these numbers...
gm at the beginning of the year get a bill for 13 billion dollars and that is just for benefits for their 360,000 retirees
the wages for ceos and plant workers i agree need to be assessed and everybody is gonna have to give a little
everybody looks at the dealers as the crooks in the price of vehicles ..sorry to burst your bubbles but for years and years the profit margin from dealer invoice to sticker price is getting smaller and smaller for instance ...
if a dealer sells a little 4cyl gas mileage car and sells it for full sticker there is about 398.00 profit in it for the dealer it dont take a rocket scientist to figure with advertising expense floor plan interest,utilities and payroll "i can list it all if you want but i will have cramps if i do"..it cost your average dealer around 498.00 per customer that comes into your dealership do the math..
now there is a lil better profit in pre owned cars but it aint all gravy as the general public thinks..what needs to be focused on is how the big three can cut some fat enough to be able to build these new cars cheaper therefore be able to offer the product to the consumer at a better price...period..this is the only business i know is sales i have 5 kids a mortgage a car payment and all the bills the rest of you do and i am in jeapordy of losing everything and alot of other people are in the same boat think of all of the factories that exist only because they make parts for autos its millions of jobs nationwide ..i aint stickin up for the big three i have been affected dramatically by this reccesion in the industry and i blame them and i blame the unions for driving the cost of labor up for years i also agree they need to do something to offset the losses and change up the wages and benefits..but if they let the big 3 fail this country will be even deeper on its ass than it already is..see the whole picture before you say pis on em let fail ..just my two cents..

[Tim H]

Where does the idea come from that says taxpayers should pay their taxes to keep the Big Three Auto Makers from failing? Why are so many looking to the government to step in and fix everything.

Yellowdog, the question just has to be asked, if there is no money to be made in the auto industry, why did you stay in it for a long time? I'm not trying to be smart or offend you, but what makes you think it is my job to pay taxes to keep you employed, when by your own admission you know you aren't going to make much money at it.

[yellowdog]

Where does the idea come from that says taxpayers should pay their taxes to keep the Big Three Auto Makers from failing? Why are so many looking to the government to step in and fix everything.

Yellowdog, the question just has to be asked, if there is no money to be made in the auto industry, why did you stay in it for a long time? I'm not trying to be smart or offend you, but what makes you think it is my job to pay taxes to keep you employed, when by your own admission you know you aren't going to make much money at it.

not saying it is your responsibilty to "keep me emplyed"..i dont need new autos to make a living there is more money in the used anyhow..and i have never asked the government or anyone else for a handout my entire life never have i drawn unemployment or been on any goernment aid been working my ass off since i was 13 years old..this business will come around sooner or later everything usually comes full circle!..my post is to the million jobs that will be lost for the companies that arent union run and completely rely on the auto industry to keep them afloat now that being said these are factories that are in small town america that dont employ 48 per hour people but 8 to 10 dollar an hour people..i could give a hoot less from my stand point if they bail these idiots out or not..i just think the end result will be devistating if the dont..and also they keep calling this a handout..THIS IS NOT A HANDOUT THIS IS A LOAN ...when they did the same type deal back in the 70's the government made over 3 million in profit off of the handout....so you can look at it however you want but if this country dont pull together and help each other out we are in deep crap boys and girls..remember the old days when people helped one another out things were alot better...also as i said before this has to be a give and take on both sides ..the workers are gonna have to cut some wages and benefits along with these way overpaid upper management people..cut the fat and work together everybody has to have some give and take..also i work about 70-80 hours a week to earn what i do and i have also taken a pay cut to help the business i work at survive until times are better,,,,anyway thats what i got to say

[Tim H]

See here is where I see some confusion in how people are looking at things. When you say "they" should bail them out or loan them money, "they" (the government) are not doing anything except using my money. The Big Three are getting loans all the time, it is a part of business, they have just been getting it from more conventional means before now. Due to their businesses not being viable, the conventional loans are not available to them. The banks know they can't afford them because they can't pay them back (is this starting to sound familiar?) so what people are suggesting is that the government step in and "fix" this. (Again, is this sounding familiar?) Taxpayers are outraged and voice their dissatisfaction with the idea. The government listens and votes it down. It rears it's ugly head again and the government gives them the money. (Sounds like the banking bailout all over again. How's that worked out?