Separation of the Gop

[bluegrass]

I think to say that the Constitution means for us to have every want and need fulfilled by the rest of the population is absolute nonsense. To carry it out to its fullest, the "pursuit of happiness" COULD mean that whatever house YOU live in should be GIVEN to ME because it will undoubtably make me "happy". Why dont we provide EVERYONE a 5 thousand square foot house, Ferrari in the garage, inground pool, etc...???

I agree that "rights" have been INTERPRETED from the Constitution, and you and I could sit here all night coming up with new ways to extrapolate things from the Constitution that we want or need. Does that mean we SHOULD??


. I don't agree with all of them either. But we are the only industrialized nation without a form of Universal Healthcare.


So freaking what?? Cuba has "Universal Healthcare" and you do NOT see people flocking from all over the globe to be treated by Cuban physicians. WHY?? Because (and you KNOW this already ) the healthcare in Cuba as well as ALL nations with subsidized healthcare is substandard and shabby. Not to mention the waiting that must be done for routine services. There is a reason that the hospitals in Detroit are filled with CANADIAN residents seeking health services.


Please look up this quote ( I really dont remember who said it off the top of my head )- A Government big enough to GIVE you everything is also big enough to TAKE everything away from you as well...might not be exact but its close enough to make my point.



Tony

[beaglechase]

Tony have you seen Michael Moores documentary on this seems like he researched this in country, now smart a@s how do you know read some piece from Fox news?

[tommyg]

You all call Rush a nut job and then use Michael Moores as a resource,maybe the biggest wacko alive. Man I have heard it all now. I know without a dought that you're way to far gone Beaglechase.

[bluegrass]

You all call Rush a nut job and then use Michael Moores as a resource,maybe the biggest wacko alive. Man I have heard it all now. I know without a dought that you're way to far gone Beaglechase.

Tony

[beaglechase]

You all call Rush a nut job and then use Michael Moores as a resource,maybe the biggest wacko alive. Man I have heard it all now. I know without a dought that you're way to far gone Beaglechase.

yeah ! Rush a nut without a bolt, can't find one too fit, odd size... Michael runners up wacko, Rush in the lead go Rush!!!

[Pine Mt Beagles]

NATIONAL HEALTH CARE IS COMMING ,SMALL BUSINESS CANNOT MAKE WITHOUT IT AND MOST LARGE COMPANIES ALSO,WILL IT WORK I DON'T KNOW ,BUT IT WILL HAVE TO BE BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAVE NOW...........P.S.---RUSH IS NOT JUST A NUT' HE IS ALSO A CRIMINAL AND SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO FINISH DESTROYING THE G O P CLAN OF TEA DRINKERS.........

[beaglechase]

comrade you and I know that there is a national health care system that is already working for thousands of american citizens, but keep it low onion sack doesn't know...

[DoubleEagle]

I think to say that the Constitution means for us to have every want and need fulfilled by the rest of the population is absolute nonsense. To carry it out to its fullest, the "pursuit of happiness" COULD mean that whatever house YOU live in should be GIVEN to ME because it will undoubtably make me "happy".

Tony

Well Tony I can honestly say that my house wouldn't make you happy. Unless you enjoy being too hot in the summer and feeling a breeze blowing through in the winter. Along with the electrical and gas bills that go along with it. Why live here? Because it's all I can afford.
Now if you're saying it would make you happy to take my house out of simple mean-spiritedness. Well I wouldn't be surprised. I'd be happy if you were banned from watching Fox News.

But now on to your other "points"...

Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.
Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990
Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960
Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.
Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana Africa.
Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.

Myth Two: Universal Health Care Would Be Too Expensive
Fact One: The United States spends at least 40% more per person on health care than any other industrialized country with universal health care
Fact Two: Federal studies by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting office show that single payer universal health care would save 100 to 200 Billion dollars per year despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits.
Fact Three: State studies by Massachusetts and Connecticut have shown that single payer universal health care would save 1 to 2 Billion dollars per year from the total medical expenses in those states despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits
Fact Four: The costs of health care in Canada as a % of GNP, which were identical to the United States when Canada changed to a single payer, universal health care system in 1971, have increased at a rate much lower than the United States, despite the US economy being much stronger than Canada’s.


Myth Three: Universal Health Care Would Deprive Citizens of Needed Services
Fact One: Studies reveal that citizens in universal health care systems have more doctor visits and more hospital days than in the US
Fact Two: Around 30% of Americans have problem accessing health care due to payment problems or access to care, far more than any other industrialized country. About 17% of our population is without health insurance. About 75% of ill uninsured people have trouble accessing/paying for health care.
Fact Three: Comparisons of Difficulties Accessing Care Are Shown To Be Greater In The US Than Canada.
Fact Four: Access to health care is directly related to income and race in the United States.
Fact Five: There would be no lines under a universal health care system in the United States because we have about a 30% oversupply of medical equipment and surgeons, whereas demand would increase about 15%


Myth Four: Universal Health Care Would Result In Government Control And Intrusion Into Health Care Resulting In Loss Of Freedom Of Choice
Fact One: There would be free choice of health care providers under a single payer universal health care system, unlike our current managed care system in which people are forced to see providers on the insurer’s panel to obtain medical benefits
Fact Two: There would be no management of care under a single payer, universal health care system unlike the current managed care system which mandates insurer preapproval for services thus undercutting patient confidentiality and taking health care decisions away from the health care provider and consumer
Fact Three: Although health care providers fees would be set as they are currently in 90% of cases, providers would have a means of negotiating fees unlike the current managed care system in which they are set in corporate board rooms with profits, not patient care, in mind
Fact Four: Taxes, fees and benefits would be decided by the insurer which would be under the control of a diverse board representing consumers, providers, business and government. It would not be a government controlled system, although the government would have to approve the taxes. The system would be run by a public trust, not the government.


Myth Five: Universal Health Care Is Socialized Medicine And Would Be Unacceptable To The Public
Fact One: Single payer universal health care is not socialized medicine. It is health care payment system, not a health care delivery system. Health care providers would be in fee for service practice, and would not be employees of the government, which would be socialized medicine. Single payer health care is not socialized medicine, any more than the public funding of education is socialized education, or the public funding of the defense industry is socialized defense.
Fact Two: Repeated national and state polls have shown that between 60 and 75% of Americans would like a universal health care system


Myth Six: The Problems With The US Health Care System Are Being Solved and Are Best Solved By Private Corporate Managed Care Medicine because they are the most efficient
Fact One: Private for profit corporation are the lease efficient deliverer of health care. They spend between 20 and 30% of premiums on administration and profits. The public sector is the most efficient. Medicare spends 3% on administration.
Fact Two: The same procedure in the same hospital the year after conversion from not-for profit to for-profit costs is between 20 to 35% more
Fact Three: Health care costs in the United States grew more in the United States under managed care in 1990 to 1996 than any other industrialized nation with single payer universal health care
Fact Four: The quality of health care in the US has deteriorated under managed care. Access problems have increased. The number of uninsured has dramatically increased (increase of 10 million to 43.4 million from 1989 to 1996, increase of 2.4% from 1989 to 1996- 16% in 1996 and increasing each year).
Fact Five: The level of satisfaction with the US health care system is the lowest of any industrialized nation.
Fact Six: 80% of citizens and 71% of doctors believe that managed care has caused quality of care to be compromised.

[bluegrass]

I notice you were very careful to NOT list any sources for your "facts"...I am betting they came from either Obama's own website or another left leaning blog. Not too shocking though.

I'm not gonna put near the time and effort to list rebuttals to what you have posted....if you want socialism, you are getting it...funny thing is that even with all the leftist policies floating around this country now the liberals are even angrier than they were when they werent in control of Washington. Maybe YOU should donate your money for some illegal's healthcare, maybe YOU should donate your money to give to a dirtbag who never worked a day in his or her life because they have drawn a government check all their lives. SOME of us however would like to keep our hard earned money to spend as WE see fit, not some douchebag community organizer, or lying Speaker of the House, or whacked out nutjob ex Vice President like ALGORE...you champion the socialist cause all you want too...eventually they WILL get to something that YOU enjoy and then maybe even YOU wont be so eager to comply.



Tony

[S.R.Patch]

We are getting socialism because that is what we've been prepped for, and are now being fed.
I don't speak of Dem or Rep, but of Corp. America. They've been pulling the plug on this Country the last 10 years. Most anyone I've talk to, all the Companies have been doing the same things. Risk management, Millions spent on consulting firms that show them how to back out of their investment in America and it's people. The financial drain has been opened and the crooks fleeing with the proceeds. You speak of "entitlements", the billions that have been received as bonuses for those allowing Companies to go down to ruin is "fact in your face" enough to see there is no loyalty left to America or it's people. He who holds the purse strings is boss. For 32 yrs I worked for a Company that had health care as part of a benefit package, meaning it was received in lieu of wages., now, the cost is laid at my feet to pay. The management of the Company has been such that the 401k is now a 10k. The lawyers and judges have decided the Companies no longer have any obligation to fund retiree health care or pension, so the trust funds are now going broke(why do they call it a "trust" fund? when there is no trust any more).
I have not left my job, my job has left me. I have not stopped working for my Company, my Company has stopped working for me. I have not stopped providing a service to my company to benefit them and the source of energy that drives the engine of this great Country, but they have changed roads and they have left the engine in disrepair, when Companies do this, they have bled and prepped for a sell-out and it seem to have been going on for a long time and on a grand scale.
No one ever said life is fair. I still believe dreams are worth having. Time passes and lessons are relearnt. I always joked about how it would be possible for me to get a 50 yr. service award and how nice that new tie-tac would look on me if i ever wore a tie , now it seems I may get the chance to find out...
... My daughter is unemployed but won't sign up for unemployment, she says, "I've still got some savings and I'll find some work to make some money". I told her she had payed into it and it was there to aid her until she found some work but she don't want to take it, I think she has a lot of her great-grandma in her, she washed other peoples clothes for them to make ends meet and grandpa would cut fence post. You gotta be proud of a little girl like that... ... I stopped by to see her tonight and the apartment was dark, I knocked on the door and the kitchen light came on. I told her I wasn't sure if there was anybody home or not, she said, "I was in the bedroom reading, no need to leave all the lights on. My, how she has changed since she left home, I used to always have to trail after her turning lights and radios off. Some of the influence must have stuck, tho it didn't seem so at the time...

[Pine Mt Beagles]

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER WHEN AMERICA WAS NOT SOCIALIST IN MANY WAY'S,IF YOU DO YOU ARE MOST LIKELY 50 YEARS OLD OR MORE,
ANOTHER INTERESTING THING I HAVE NOTICED IS PEOPLE STILL CALL THEMSELVES CONSERVATIVE OR LIBERAL ,THER IS NO SUCH THING IN AMERICA TODAY THAT IS WHY THE G O P. IS HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT YET.I HAVE NEVER MET A PERSON YET THAT WAS EITHER ONE OR THE OTHER TOTALLY 100% .BUT HOWEVER SOME VOTE ALONG PARTY LINES ,NO MATTER WHO IS RUNNING,YET.AND WILL NOT CHANGE..

[bluegrass]

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER WHEN AMERICA WAS NOT SOCIALIST IN MANY WAY'S,IF YOU DO YOU ARE MOST LIKELY 50 YEARS OLD OR MORE,
ANOTHER INTERESTING THING I HAVE NOTICED IS PEOPLE STILL CALL THEMSELVES CONSERVATIVE OR LIBERAL ,THER IS NO SUCH THING IN AMERICA TODAY THAT IS WHY THE G O P. IS HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT YET.I HAVE NEVER MET A PERSON YET THAT WAS EITHER ONE OR THE OTHER TOTALLY 100% .BUT HOWEVER SOME VOTE ALONG PARTY LINES ,NO MATTER WHO IS RUNNING,YET.AND WILL NOT CHANGE..

I stopped voting along party lines when Bush ran the first time...I used to trust Republicans enough to vote that way, but no longer...I AM conservative and do try to vote that way as often as I can....as for this past election I would have voted for a kitchen table before I would have voted for Obama...simply cannot stand the Socialism that is being crammed down our throats. Plus the fact that he is trying to get it all done before the mid term elections so no one can stop his Commie train from rollin down the tracks. McCain was and is an idiot in my opinion....I wouldnt have even voted if he had not had Sarah Palin on his ticket....as much as the libs and so called MODERATE Republicans try to paint her as unqualified, stupid, etc, she DOES resonate and hit a chord with true CONSERVATIVES in this country...thats why even now they continue to attack her. They were and still are afraid of Sarah Palin and what she represents.


WOW, common ground with Rufus...who woulda thunk it????




LOL



TONY

[tommyg]

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER WHEN AMERICA WAS NOT SOCIALIST IN MANY WAY'S,IF YOU DO YOU ARE MOST LIKELY 50 YEARS OLD OR MORE,
ANOTHER INTERESTING THING I HAVE NOTICED IS PEOPLE STILL CALL THEMSELVES CONSERVATIVE OR LIBERAL ,THER IS NO SUCH THING IN AMERICA TODAY THAT IS WHY THE G O P. IS HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT YET.I HAVE NEVER MET A PERSON YET THAT WAS EITHER ONE OR THE OTHER TOTALLY 100% .BUT HOWEVER SOME VOTE ALONG PARTY LINES ,NO MATTER WHO IS RUNNING,YET.AND WILL NOT CHANGE..

I vote values,period. The Democrats are attacking the moral values I was raised to belive and they are attacking the family and Christ. Now Rufus if you stand with this vermin thats you're choise and I respect it because we have that freedom but don't try to explain it away as in a earlier post you made that we'll never see gay Marriage banned or Abortion Banned or jobs come back to America because,this nation is being DESTROYED by LIBERALISM. Again you show you're morals are lacking and money rules your life. Why else would say well I'll never be able to stop Abortion or the Abombination of Sodmey so at least if I vote for the Liberals they will give me free money. Truely sad people will vote for Democrats,it shows that this Nations Morals is in the gutter. Free health care isn't free--welfare isn't free---all these programs the Liberals have to redistribute wealth isn't free,its the working man and woman that pays for it. We are paying for the Sins of the 60's now,who would have thought that no backbone Liberals like Carter,Clinton and Obama would ever be elected to the greatest position of power in the world. One thing we can learn from it is it takes 3 people with no morals to destroy the greatest Economey in the world and bring down a God fearing nation as great as this one.

[2500 HD]

Well said!!!!!!!! The truth is gonna hurt some, but it always does... I'm scared for the people that believe nothing bad is coming our way.

[S.R.Patch]

"Bad" hit the middle of last year...The after shocks will be felt for a long time...the only constant is change to right the boat again.
Complacency from the "good times" has allowed evil to root into the moral fibers of the Country, one weed pointing fingers at the other weed does not make the field productive again.
The brier and the broom sage can sit and complain about how poor the soil is, but fair warning, the farmer and the plow are out of the shed...