Separation of the Gop

[beaglechase]

I noticed a lot of people on this board have separated themselves as conservatives, under the flag of the gop? and it seems the majority on this board are of the same mind, and don't want themselves associated with the liberal republicans, or the main stream..I guess my question is shouldn't they be a conservative party that could stand alone and win an election? Please answer in a civilized manner, no putting people down or question someone's intelligence, that seems so rampount on this board!!!!!!

[bluemouse]

News flash--- It dont matter what flag you fly we all live under one flag-- Untill our leaders stop spending money like dunken sailors it would not make a tinkers darn if you are conservative, lib,independent,etc. everybody wants something and someone else to pay for it, our law makers continue to make new laws everyday but dont enforce the ones from yesterday its all self serving. Unless the people of this country stand up and say enough of washingtons BS nothing will change they will lead the sheep to slaughter. They dont even understand Illegal Alien so they spend more money on them than protecting our country from terrorist or people that are us citizens that need help, go figure, I could go on but who cares right.

[tommyg]

No Beaglechase what is needed is for Republicans to get back to Conservativeism. Another party would only make things worse. Bluemouse is right their all out of control in Washington. Obama is on a Liberal spending spree and the Republicans aren't far behind. Washington needs flushed of the "Old Insiders" and bring in some new HONEST people that will actualy try to help the people insted of keeping them underfoot,I realy don't care what their called. We have had about all the help form Washington we can stand.. Either they don't know what help means or they don't care about the common person,I belive its the latter.

[S.R.Patch]

If you take what you see on the small local scale and enlarge it to match the big picture, you can see how deep and corrupt it can become embedded.
I see no other way for change other than a 3rd party anew and fresh. You see on the news the old underlying priorities of each party, while trying to deal with the current problems of today.
I watched Fox on the recent gas price hikes and the price of oil. Even with the extreme high average of oil and gas reserves and the recent 8% reduction in usage and demand, they still want to play the fuzzy math and say demand and usages it up. Well, somebody lying and it will show up on the profit sheet and when it shows they bought the oil at $35 for gas. and round traded and sold it at $58. In today's financial environment, it's hard for me not to look at the Oil and Gas Corp.s as "terrorist from within". I remember well when they stated, "the USA going into recession will have no effect on our oil price, China will buy it and pay the price", they must have forgot the old adage "when America catches a cold, the rest of the World gets the flu".
I believe their playing the "Enron" game with gas and oil right now, but it is a dangerous game they play for the trust of American has already been jeopardized, if they're found to be milking the bull, they're shore to get the horn in the end and the people will surely then demand the regulation be done and the corrupt annalist and speculators be jailed.
The retraction of the market is hard for those of means and plenty to give up. So much so that many will risk going to jail over. Poor ole Bernie almost made it, if only the redemption's hadn't been called for he'd probably never been found out...

To big to fail is to big to exist

[S.R.Patch]

***NEWS FLASH***
Goldman & Morgan Stanley bidding up oil!!! That's right folks...Banks with bail-out money bidding up oil stocks driving up the price you pay for gas...

Man-o-man what a way to funnel the moo-la...

[beaglechase]

No Beaglechase what is needed is for Republicans to get back to Conservativeism. Another party would only make things worse. Bluemouse is right their all out of control in Washington. Obama is on a Liberal spending spree and the Republicans aren't far behind. Washington needs flushed of the "Old Insiders" and bring in some new HONEST people that will actualy try to help the people insted of keeping them underfoot,I realy don't care what their called. We have had about all the help form Washington we can stand.. Either they don't know what help means or they don't care about the common person,I belive its the latter.

tommy I believe there is a big difference, in thinking when it comes to what the common person needs, today it is surounded around job creation energy independence, trying to work out the terrorist threat, put money in the pockets of the unemployeed, trying a new direction for this country to move forward, , health care for everyone, this is one area where everyone agrees that a chalk has been put on America's growth...

[bluegrass]

, health care for everyone, this is one area where everyone agrees that a chalk has been put on America's growth...




Can someone please tell me what part of the constitution guarantees the RIGHT to FREE HEALTH CARE???


BTW, there is NO such thing as free health care, or free ANYTHING for that matter where the Government is concerned...SOMEONE will pay for it. That someone is ALL OF US in the end.



Tony

[beaglechase]

, health care for everyone, this is one area where everyone agrees that a chalk has been put on America's growth...




Can someone please tell me what part of the constitution guarantees the RIGHT to FREE HEALTH CARE???


BTW, there is NO such thing as free health care, or free ANYTHING for that matter where the Government is concerned...SOMEONE will pay for it. That someone is ALL OF US in the end.



Tony

Tony do you know the meaning of Compassion?

[barnold1]

Where I WORK, healthcare is called a benefit, and I'm still paying several hundred a month for it. It's not a darn entitlement for all just because others WORK for it.............................This fool has definitely chewed off more community than he can organize

[tommyg]

Beaglechase Health care is fine for those who need help,but a nationalized health care system has been tried by several countries and failed,the care part is a joke,it ends up that the eliteists get the best health care while the middle class and poor have to greace doctors hands to get decent care. Compassion has nothing to do with it,maybe in a perfect world but not in this one. The elderly get sent home to die and treatments that are expensive are deined to the ones who can't afford to pay the doctors off. Now where does compassion form the likes of me play in,my taxes will be so high to fund this that even if I wanted to help I couldn't. It was stated before someone has to pay for it and it will be the American people. The system isn't broke it is warped form Washington trying to help,I belive we have had all the help we can stand form the Washington Elite.

[bluegrass]

Tony do you know the meaning of Compassion?



Com*pas"sion\, n. [F., fr. L. compassio, fr. compati to have compassion; com- + pati to bear, suffer. See Patient.] Literally, suffering with another; a sensation of sorrow excited by the distress or misfortunes of another; pity; commiseration.




No, I dont see a right to FREE HEALTHCARE in the definition of compassion.


Nice try beaglechase....just like a liberal nutball though to find a "right" where none exists...I DO agree however that everyone has a right to obtain healthcare, but just not that they have a right to have the rest of us pay for it.



Tony

[beaglechase]

Tony do you know the meaning of Compassion?



Com*pas"sion\, n. [F., fr. L. compassio, fr. compati to have compassion; com- + pati to bear, suffer. See Patient.] Literally, suffering with another; a sensation of sorrow excited by the distress or misfortunes of another; pity; commiseration.




No, I dont see a right to FREE HEALTHCARE in the definition of compassion.


Nice try beaglechase....just like a liberal nutball though to find a "right" where none exists...I DO agree however that everyone has a right to obtain healthcare, but just not that they have a right to have the rest of us pay for it.



Tony

you just can't do it can you Tony, I mean discuss any topic without name calling can you, then you wonder why anybody on the other side doesn't want to associate with you, it is called maturity Tony, Tony do you realize that there is one of the greatest health care systems in the world, that costs the patients very little too nothing, right here in America? And right at this moment you are paying huge amounts of your tax earned money for illegal alliens to this country which has never contributed one dime to their own cause, and eventually take over this nation...While you and I differ over political policy the madoffs and drug companies and health care associations slip around the corner and laugh, because they can drive a wedge between the people of this great nation. One of the things that has corporations and individuals alike hurting the most is over healthcare, drug companies and hospital affiliates alike are building or expanding every where but I haven't heard of one cure in how many years?

[tommyg]

Beaglechase what makes you think the health care will be better Nationalized? It will be worse,much worse. As far as cures you are right,they don't want us healthy or to cure us they would loose to much money. Its a shame that its the way it is but to let the government run ANYTHING is stupid they can screw up a hamburger,I don't think the Eliteists in Washington can change a light bulb with out screwing it up. Like it not it is an us and them thing,they think of us as providers of money for them to spend,when we are no longer useful they disguard us. To let the older folks live paycheck to paycheck and deniah them useful health care is evil at best,with the money people have paid into SS they should be able to retire at 60 and enjoy the rest of their days. This nation disrespects its wisdom,the elderly. Compassion for the ones who earn it or the ones who are in need it because of health or injury I have no problem with but to give money to someone who is to lazy to work I feel no compassion for those kind,and theirs always work somewhere if you want it. I still belive you should earn what you get and every person has the the same chance that Bill Gates had to be wealthy. Thats what made this Nation great success and failure,and haveing the chance to succed of fail,other Socialist Nations the people don't have that chance.

[beaglechase]

Tommy I will haft to agree with you! You made several good points in your post. I heard a rumor the other day about Obama has frozen the cost of living on social security recipiants, have you heard of this? Also if the politicians had left the social security alone, and not borrowed from it , they would have been such a surplus we would not ever haft to worry, but I believe both sides has to take credit for that......

[DoubleEagle]

, health care for everyone, this is one area where everyone agrees that a chalk has been put on America's growth...


Can someone please tell me what part of the constitution guarantees the RIGHT to FREE HEALTH CARE???



Tony

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." (Opening statement of the United States Constitution)

and once in again in Section 8 of Article 1...

"Section 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

Does it say specifically "to provide healthcare for all"? No... however other sections of our Constitution have been interpreted to fit agenda's before... "Section 2. The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment." (Nixon comes to mind)
And other sections have been outright ignored... "no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate." (someone call Norm Coleman)

Now I'm not going to sit here and claim that is what our Founding Father's meant when they say provide or promote the general welfare. But I will say that much of the Constitution is and always has been open to interpretation. No single form of Government is without it's flaws. Even I gave G.W. the benefit of the doubt for much of his first term and agreed with much of his policy up to the push for War in Iraq. Yet what I have seen from the Republican party and conservative talking heads from Day One is far from the consideration that was extended to G.W. It's time to cut the bull Tony... you don't agree with Obama's policies. I don't agree with all of them either. But we are the only industrialized nation without a form of Universal Healthcare. It's time to join the 20th century (let alone the 21st).