new line drawn in the sand IDNRvs.beaglers

[jackrabbit]

As many of you know the Indiana Beagler's Alliance has been actively working to bring a Feb. Rabbit season to reality in Indiana. We have been working on this issue due to the large number of members who would like to see some sort of Feb hunting available. In our research we are finding that most states already have a Feb. season. one only to the end of the first week of feb. a handful to the middle of Feb. and most are ending Rabbit Season Feb. 28. ( also some states are open year round, and of course Michigan is opne to March 31) One would think that with everyone else doing it we would not have a problem getting Indiana's Division of Fish and Wildlife to agree. Early last week Glen Lange, chief of Biology was very blunt in letting me know that he is still ticked off that we stopped them from closing dog training feb. 28 to Oct. 1 of each year. He told me that regardless of the opinion of the sportsmen he would not even look at any proposal that did not have Indiana specific, and wildlife journal type research indicating that a Feb. Rabbit season was ok. As you know Indiana's Division of Fish and Wildlife does no research to speak of, and most of the other states have mostly extended season at the request of the rabbit hunter. It appears that We are going to have to forge a few alliances with other groups, get our ducks in a row and force the issue thru F&W by making our own proposal to the NRC. We are allowed to do this and we believe we have a fair chance of success. What the Alliance is going to need is help from all you Beaglers, Rabbit hunters, and other supporters. Soon there will be a massive petition drive that will not go to Lange, but will be presented to the NRC or the Advisory Committee when it meets on the issue. We will continue to put all our ducks in a row, and will also need some or all of you to attend the meeting when it is held.. we dont even have the proposal put together yet, so details will be forth coming. If you have questions, information, or comments please feel free to contact us at indianabeaglersalliance@yahoo.org (or you can use .com and .net) also my phone number is 574-267-5608 if you would like to talk about the issue.

Thanks
Jackrabbit

[jackrabbit]

The Alliance has information posted on the http://www.indianabeaglersalliance.org website about the conversations we have been having with Indiana Department of Natural Resources Division of Fish and Wildlife concerning the rule change proposal to extend Rabbit season into the Month of Feb. Mr. Lange the states Chief Biologist was quite blunt about being still upset that we denied them the opportunity to close dog training on state lands duriing the spring and summer. He then emailed me with further clarifaction of the meaning of his statements. It is very interesting reading and can be found in the hunting legislation section of the Alliance website http://www.indianabeaglersalliance.org The descussion is definately ongoing and no firm plans are made at this point. please check out what Mr. Lange had to say, the Alliance comments, and give us your ideas , comments, and suggestions.

Thanks
Jackrabbit

[B.Trull]

Jack:
So where we stand here in Indiana is ?

1) Trying to extend season into feb and will need documents from other F&W from other states to substaniate extension of the season.

2) We still have nothing concrete on the books to ensure we have a gaurenteed running season on state lands,correct ? Just status quo !!!

3) No new hound training areas ??

Will it do any good to contact our state represenatives or our we just lobbying the DNR board directly for now to the committee is going to vote on rule changes.

I am getting a little confused here

Thanks Brad

[jackrabbit]

Documentation on Rabbit season has been an ongoing project with the
Alliance for more than a year and half. We have contacted all 50 states Fish and Wildlife Divisions, have extensive research concerning the vast amount of research that has been done on the effects of late season rabbit harvest on state populations, Annual rabbit population surveys done by most states F&W divisions for the last ten years, the numbers of small game hunting licenses sold in most states for the last ten years, and the dates most states went to some form of Feb. or later rabbit season. ( currently only three states offer no Feb. or later rabbit season. Indiana, Illinois, and Conneticut. 9 states rabbit season is open 12 month a year, three or fout into the middle of Feb., Mi. to the end of March, three or so till the end of april, and all the rest end Feb.28) The Alliance also has letters and emails from many state biologists on why and how their states seasons were extend, along with letters that quote research articles as to the weather related factors influencing the effects of late season harvest. And we have several bilogists thesis papers on the same subject. All this information has been compiled and is on Indiana's FWCC meeting agenda for this coming sat. Sat. will be the first time the Alliance has had the opportunity to share our information with the rest of the sporting community and the members of the FWCC. This is being done for imformational purposes only so all members can understand what the extended rabbit season issue really is. We also have a few unexpected factors to figure into the equation. one is that our state properites are more fragile than the private sector due to not being able to control the number of hunters and dogs on them, therefore over harvest may be a factor and we are still looking closely at that. also We have gotten some feed back from the southern part of the state that indicates the field trial clubs may not want all of Feb. to be open rabbit hunting. as much i am bewildered and confused over the statements we have had at least three clubs explain that field trials are kicking in gear and the clubs dont want the competition from hunters. ( this feeling concerns the Alliance. We already have problems with the Indiana Deer Hunters Association stance that the lands should be left sit idle untill that magic one or two weeks that they deer hunt comes around, and no dogs, horses, or people should be disturbing the deer), We may be looking at a split season for rabbits much like we have for squirrel. All research says we dont need it, except for possibly on F&W areas, but sometimes compromise is needed just get things advanced forward.

No, there is nothing in the form of law or administrtive code that insures dog training will stay open. We do have the assurance that dog training will difficult if not impossible for DNR to close due to the fact that the NRC will not advance the issue on. We must keep close watch on the dog training to insure it stays open.

and no we have no new dog training area officially... we do have one, but it is unofficial and i cant speak on it here for fear that F&W will get wind of it and shut it off.....Glen Lange does not want to open dog training areas on the new ares that the state opens.... THE ALLIANCE IS ASKING EVERYONE TO CONTACT OUR NEW IDNR DIRECTOR KYLE HUPFER AND REMIND HIM OF THE STRONG ANTI SPORTSMAN ACTIONS AND ATTITUDES THAT OUR CHIEF BIOLOGIST , MR LANGE, HAS SHOWN OVER YEARS AND SUGGEST THAT IDNR CONSIDER HIRING A NEW CHIEF BIOLOGIST. ALSO SUGGEST THAT INCLUDING A DOG TRAINING AREA IN ALL NEW STATE LANDS AQUIRED BE MANDATED WHEN THEY ARE OBTAINED.

Thanks
Jack Hyden
Indiana Beaglers Alliance

[S.R.Patch]

Greetings Jack,
I am saddened to hear a few of the beagle clubs have taken this attitude toward the opening and extending of the rabbit season for hunting through Feb. in Indiana. No doubt, their concern is with the number of cast sites that would be available, if hunter were afield also, at this same time, but while looking at the trial dates in the beagle book, I see this happens and is delt with, during any hunt trial that occurs during the Nov.- Jan. regular season.
For those like me, I say, don't let a few trees block your view of the forest. I feed my hounds the 9 months, so I can hunt them the 3 months it is legal. If you can get me 4, I'm behind you all the way...Those wanting a weekend out of the month to hold a field trial, while willing to deny the rest hunting privileges of that month, is selfish and narrow minded...JMHO...Patch

ps. we mostly hunt private ground and only kill a couple dozen, but enjoy the ability to carry our gun and listen to the hounds run for as many days as possible, something about it makes us feel young again...lol
Thanks to you and the Alliance for pleading our case...

[jackrabbit]

and im grateful to all those like you who do let us know what they think. We try our best to listen whole heartedly to everyones concerns.... its the only way we can truely work for the needs of the beagling community completely. I know the guys that have aired their concerns and they are good hard working beaglers. Ultimately the amount of Feb. we get is going to be decided by Fish and Wildlife, and the more together we all are the better chance we have of being successful. I am encouraged that Glen is open to the idea now. Know that we will work diligently to open every ligimate avenue to enjoying our dogs and our sport that we can.

shheessh, patch, i just re-read what i wrote... dang sounds to much like a pollitician.....lol.

[B.Trull]

Thanks for the detailed response Jack. I will contact him directly then ( Kyle) .

[jackrabbit]

anytime we can help let us know.... thats what we are here for. The more our members and the rabbit hunters, beaglers, other sporting dog groups speak out the better we can serve and the more effective we all will be.

[jackrabbit]

The FWCC meeting in Indy was jam packed with topics last Sat. An outline of everything will posted in the next few days on the Alliance Website at http://www.indianabeaglersalliance.org but one point of interest was that Glen Lange seems much more responsive and cooperative toward our proposal for a Feb. Rabbit season. I offered a short presentation on the results of our ongoing research into extending rabbit season, and read a few of the many emails and letters we recieved from game biologist all over the country. hopefully Fish and Wildlife will continue to cooperate as we work to figure the proper formula of days to extend the season and work with both private and state lands. From our view point there is reason to be flexible and work with all the parties involved. The overwhelming results of our work clearly states that a Feb. 28 ending date is going to be a positive time and have no negative effects on total state populations on private lands. State lands could be a differant situation, however, and we are certainly going to look much closer in that direction before suggesting a new closing date. possibly as early as Feb. 14.

thanks folks
Jack Hyden
indiana Beaglers Allliance

[S.R.Patch]

Greeting Jack,
Happy to hear things are looking positive for the extended season.
A odd thing to me, they want two different closing dates. Maybe as they see no ill effects, they will bring them together or maybe their just trying to confuse those of us with a weak mind...lol.
I hope now, that they seem to have such a concern for the small game, they will do more to promote the propagation, such as keeping the fields and food plots open and not allowing the trees to take over. If the quick growing scrub trees reach a certain diameter, they will not push them out or cut them down and the ground is gradually lost to forest, this was told to me by the DR.
One of the best things I've seen them do, was to allow the tree triming Co. to dump the tree trimings on the property. In this area, there was a boom in the population, untill the tops rotted down and the cover was lost.
Again, thanks for the update and keep the spear head moving foreward... ...Patch

[jackrabbit]

First let me clarify one point.... the confusion is my fault on the two dates. The Alliance has seen and gotten confirming data that state properties get tremdously more pressure than private properties. And though late season harvest is found to not have significant impact on the total rabbit populations a tremendous amount of pressure in localized areas could have a negative affect. It is understood that late season harvest is also somewhat additive, meaning some of the rabbits harvested could be rabbits that would survive the tremedous amount of predation, decease, and inclemant weather and be there to breed in the spring. The amount of pressue other states are seeing on private land clearly shows no problems what so ever. Our state lands are more difficult to control and it may be better to be safe rather than sorry. Should later it be determinded that state land is not seeing a negative impact the Alliance would go back and work to get the Feb.28 ending date on state lands also. Again, the two dates are the suggestion of the Beaglers Alliance at this time and not the division of Fish and Wildlife and nothing has been agreed on what so ever. Should the majoriety of beaglers, rabbit hunters, and field trialers prefer the later ending date for state land also we would ask for it.

Now for the great idea you have. Habitat is what propogates rabbits. meaning enough food sources, good hiding places to protect from preditors, and both of these close to water. also salt supplements have shown to increase litter size tememously. the more of all the above that rabbits have in close proximaty so movement needed to obtain food, water, and shelter is reduced the more rabbits an area will have. its referred to as "carrying capacity of the land". With the money problems that state agencies such as Fish and Wildlife and Parks and Reservoir have it would be wise if we sportsmen ceased to lay the total responsibility for habitat enhancement on the shoulders of divison staff and began to to organize volunteer groups to go do the grunt work and build and maintain the habitat on state lands ourselves. It will take some team work and coordination with the state biologists and property managers, but it will be so well worth the efforts.

thanks patch, you put your foot in your mouth and came out with a great idea. see why i enjoy getting you comments.....lol

[S.R.Patch]

Well now you have me more confused than ever
We want two seperate dates???
Where you get all this pressure from??? What study are you refereing to???
The bitter cold of Feb. will have most of the fair weather hunters watching football in the easy chair, it will be nothing like the fair weather pressure of the Oct. month...
I really see no threat of greater pressure, if anything less...
Gosh, I feel like I need to go brush my teeth now...

[jackrabbit]

Patch, you are correct that the numbers of hunters in Feb. are going to be less than in Oct. or Nov. Its also a fact that the number of Rabbits in Feb. is going to be less than in Oct. or Nov. On Private land the owner is capable of controling the number of hunters using the land. On state Fish and Wildlife Areas and state reservoirs there are no controls. Now even though the number of hunters is lower so is the number of available rabbits which equates into a higher mortality percentage even when the total numbers are less. The effects could not be noticeable at all, or should some Fish and Wildlife areas see heavy hunting in feb. then fall numbers could fall drastically.

The reason those of us at the alliance involved in securing and extended rabbit season are looking at the state land impact issue is because we have gotten a dozen or more emails and letters from state biologist in other states. these biologists are working in states that have for years had Feb. and later rabbit seasons. they are also biologists that are sound supporters of late season harvest. they believe strongly that a Feb. season has no negative affects on overall state rabbit populations. Now in each and every instance one of the comments those biologists made was that late season harvest could have a drastic negative effect on on localized areas such as Fish and Wildlife Properties and other state lands. With these biologists that are, in essence, on our side concerned about the effects on state land we feel it only purdent to give it a tremendous amount of consideration also. As much as we want late season harvest
(a Feb. rabbit season ) we want to make certain that we are not destroying the resource as we do. And, my friend, the alliance is not sure about the effects on fish and wildlife areas. The private lands is a given its not a problem. and since we are a ways from getting an extended season anyway it offers us the opportunity to scrutinze all the varialbles very closely....

thanks again