The American Beagler Forum

I know I have many short comings and have made many mistakes but sometimes we don't realize how wrong we are till someone is kind enough to point them all out to us. If I've hurt anyone feelings or made myself out to be something of a rude person, then I want to apologize and ask your forgiveness.
I got this letter and it showed me what a terrible person I am and what others must think of me. I can only say I'm sorry...
I'll take my chastisement in public so I won't soon forget my place.

Chris Hornick

Feb 8 at 11:10 PM

To

me


Same ol’ Charles… Maybe you should troll back through that BB article. The photos of the individual hounds were all bred by Willet. (Your alter ego “SR Patch” would be offended by that comment degrading his idol.) As for the hounds in the article that were bred by Mike (5 of the 11, other than kennel pic), one cannot make an assessment of their qualities from the photos alone. I will attach a couple pics, can you guess whose kennel this hound came from?

Let’s go through those hounds in the article: #1- I don’t see any skin issues, #2 maybe not perfect feet but not faulty, and #3 not one hound pictured was over 15” and #4 all had a fairly good topline. Also never heard of one of Mike’s hounds having shoulder or hip issues, some a little “loose” in the shoulder but not faulty. (Some ancestors of your hounds are pictured in the article.) I have ran hare with Mike’s hounds in Beaver Meadows and other spots in the north country, and cottontail & hare here in PA, so I do have knowledge of their running style. Also saw your hound at Darrell’ s 15 yrs ago. Your negativity does not surprise me, as we all know you are the guru of all things patch and unless it originated from your stock, it is unworthy. (I have heard this from other patch guys too.)

You should also go back and troll through some old pedigrees. The outcrossing did not start with Mike. Ol’ Willet did quite a bit of the ol’ outcrossing. That’s what cracks me up about the 100% pure comments. I know you’re going to say “different branch of the same tree” but so were Mike’s outcrosses. Some of Mike’s were actually closer than Willet’s. I hear Willet molded some hounds out of Adirondack clay (that was sarcasm). As far as the thinking that there is enough patch out there now that outcrosses are not necessary is foolish. Are you booking a breeding to a short-necked pony in Georgia or a cherry eye in Tennessee or crooked legs in Maryland. Maybe some of that Lesage Blood will bring Patchwork pups to the fame you so desire? Why did Willet not breed to hounds that descended from his own? After all he knew where they were. I know the answer. I have a box of pictures from Willet and Mike, also have Willet’s pedigree notes on all the hounds concerning structure and field ability. It is a very interesting read.

You can work with the southern hounds or wherever else and let me know if you come up with something. I am not having any problems producing nice, well-rounded hounds, that are going to rabbit hunters, not the wackos, and the demand is greater than the supply. I really enjoy when someone comes back for their 2nd or 3rd hound, they get preference. (Within the last year, among others, one went to southern Indiana and a repeat buyer took a pup to eastern Illinois.)

Before he passed, I told Mike about your desires to all work together and in his straightforward style, his comments were very comical. He barely remembered you being there but remembered your phone calls. I can’t quote him exactly, but remembering him describe his thoughts brings a smile to my face. As I’m sure you know, Willet called him “Wild Mike.” I stayed at Mike’s home for a week at a time. We spent a great deal of time discussing the hounds and houndsmen of today and yesteryear. Some patch peddlers are not even on the same book, let alone the same page.

If Mike were still alive, would you have made that same comment? (Considering you were always sucking-up to him.) Or is it that you are running out of people to preach your nonsense to or is it you are just acting up with a comment on everything like you do on the forums? (4,389 posts on American Beagler alone, 4th most) I hear that many have grown tired of your antics.

Now you can relay a parable from your visit across the pond or go get your copy of Wilderness Patchwork or your Poor Richard’s Almanac and quote me some awe–inspiring egg rearing tales. I have seen the southern and Midwestern hatchlings, not a lot of beauty or talent. (Oh, and don’t forget to add a line of emoticons, I really love those.)

By the way, The Hunted Hare site is booming. It’s a great forum, better than ever.

Quite humbling.......two sides to this tale?....probably....

Takes quite an individual to apologize on a public forum for their short comings when it comes to hounds, hunting and genetics thereof. The thing that gets me on them is that there are evidently NO authorities on the subject. ALL posts on these forums are merely reflections of experiences and opinions garnered from those individually. Until I can see someone, ANYONE, produce hounds of identical likeness generation after generation will I believe there is an expert or authority on this subject of hounds, hunting and reproduction of them. It is ALL opinion, theory, assumptions and hypothesis until and only until the end result(s) are tested and proven to replicate the same likeness of the originals of which I have NOT observed as of today. I doubt anyone else has either or we would all be following the same likeness. Yes, there are folks on these forums that I can tell have experience(s) over the years that I call E. F. Huttons that I stop and listen very carefully to. I do not consider them authorities or experts BUT rather one that has experiences different or greater than mine and from that I gain more education about the subject. Been around hounds and hunting my entire 62 years and learn something about them every year. I have only concluded that when I least expect it, expect it and that there is no authority.

S.R. You have your opinions as we all have.
Very few want dogs like I like and that is fine as I don't want what they like.
Does that make any of us bad folks? No You like Patch dogs and want to be recognized as doing so, fine with me. There are others that like that line and all of you have added what you like to your breeding.
Some good Patches down here in the SE that can show off. Might be different from yours, so what!!!
Keep breeding raising and training what YOU like. I wish you good luck on your endeavor.

war dog & Alabama john, well put. i could not have put it better myself.

I would like to believe that you are being sincere SR but I don't. I think you posted this letter to try and make Chris look bad or to try and "show" the beagling word what kind of guy is running the Patch kennel. Having read your posts not just on this forum but other forums as well I think you had bad intentions with this post. Having known Chris for 7 or 8 years now I don't know if there is a more humble or sincere man out there. He is a friend and mentor but never once has he tried to push the Patch or any other line on me. He is a very knowledgeable beagler who like all of us has his own thoughts and preferences in dogs. There is a reason Mike picked him out of many to take over the Patch kennel.

I have said I'm sorry, there is nothing I can do to make you believe me. If your opinion of me fits the letter above, then the apology is extended to you also.
When I read Chris letter, it shook me to the bone. What must I have said or did that would make someone emit such hate and contempt and then to hear that many feel the same way.
This is a beagle board, we talk about dogs. Nothing about it should cause such hard feeling.
I don't know Chris and he doesn't know me. We've never met or run hounds together. He sent this letter to my wife's personal e-mail, it didn't just stay on the beagle board. So I felt compelled to act and it must stop here and now.
I'm not playing games or talking behind anyone's back. How Chris conducts himself is his own business. I have made my peace and where thing go from here lay in each mans heart.
Good night...

i know alittle about patch hounds. so charlie what is this all about? running style inbreeding or just over breeding? i have alot of opinions on all of this. southern patch hounds do not have the foot of the northern hounds, gunsmoke was owned and breed in mi before he went north, i had 2 hounds out of him actually i had 3. u couldnt ask for better dogs. but there was a famus hound that should have never ben bread, he was worth less and for some reason a few guys went blind and was using him alot.


bill

really? southern patch hounds dont have the foot of northern hounds I have several that would put your theory to shame

Flint River , not to start a pee'n match , but you R saying you have seen all southern patch dogs run with that comment seems so . All but 1 of my patch are desentands of Yates breeding ( southern patch ) IMO . I have imported several of the so called Northern Patch and I've yet to own / find one that has anywhere near the foot of my original hounds . But like u I anit seen them all but have bought pups from alot the well know northern breeders . Culled'm all . Just saying .

Bill,
Southern hounds don`t have the foot Northern hounds do? What Fantasy book u been reading?. If I can afford it WHEN and WHERE do you want to run?
I been thinkin, that is if you want to run with my short necked Ponies, I used to run Fox Hound Field Trials at Lapeer.
Come Run

lol.... just a fact, southern patch hounds are lacking the foot. i will stand by that statement till i die. but all my breeding was to bo'spatch gunsmoke. big ole hounds that were footy.

Tsa la gi wrote:Bill,
Southern hounds don`t have the foot Northern hounds do? What Fantasy book u been reading?. If I can afford it WHEN and WHERE do you want to run?
I been thinkin, that is if you want to run with my short necked Ponies, I used to run Fox Hound Field Trials at Lapeer.
Come Run

charlie bought my last patch hounds, and taz when he was young was not lacking foot. he is sick know but when he was a year old he had more foot then he needed. come on up to lapeer and we can go over to hog backs and enjoy a run. all i have is some ole nothern bread culls. lol

LR Patch wrote:Flint River , not to start a pee'n match , but you R saying you have seen all southern patch dogs run with that comment seems so . All but 1 of my patch are desentands of Yates breeding ( southern patch ) IMO . I have imported several of the so called Northern Patch and I've yet to own / find one that has anywhere near the foot of my original hounds . But like u I anit seen them all but have bought pups from alot the well know northern breeders . Culled'm all . Just saying .

i am not trying to start a argument with u, but u know that the breeding took a beating from alot of so called breeders that were in it for the money. and i feel the hounds that stayed north ( old school) blood that ran on hare and over the years they involved. when carl sold smoke it was hart breaking to see that hound go so far away.

Alabama John wrote:S.R. You have your opinions as we all have.
Very few want dogs like I like and that is fine as I don't want what they like.
Does that make any of us bad folks? No You like Patch dogs and want to be recognized as doing so, fine with me. There are others that like that line and all of you have added what you like to your breeding.
Some good Patches down here in the SE that can show off. Might be different from yours, so what!!!
Keep breeding raising and training what YOU like. I wish you good luck on your endeavor.

Don't know any of these posters personally but Alabama John is one of my E.F. Huttons. I believe he stated he wasn't an expert when he said we all have opinions. He didn't say we all have expertise. but many have years of experience specifically suited to their situations. S.R. Patch humbled himself and apologized if he offended anyone in his opinions but yet we ALL have them and them only, when discussing hounds, hunting and breeding. Then we see OPINIONS if the apology was even sincere. GEEZE folks they are only dogs and exactly like people there are some good, some bad and some in between BUT people ALL have an opinion while the little dogs do what they were born to do with or without everyone's opinion of how they do it. Then man domesticates them to do what his opinion is of how they should do what they were put on this earth to do and then wants to take the credit of teaching them their inherent gift which by the way NO man has been able to replicate precisely! There are no books and or teachings that represent anything but opinion about the sport and the dogs we all use to enjoy it but yet arguments flair when opinions differ as it is ALL subjective. As has been stated many, many times over and over one man's trash is another man's treasure and each one of us have trashes as well as treasures and the only absolute is the OPINION in the eye of the beholder. Some like em hot, some like em cold and some like em in the pot, nine days old! The entire sport has NEVER been anything more to me than my love of doing what I have done since my childhood. I have opinions as well as experiences that may be alike or totally different than others but the only opinion that I take to heart is that I am thankful to the Almighty to have had an opportunity to experience any of it, as well as the four legged friends used in doing so. I've had as many good and bad dogs as I have had days in the field with or without them.