The American Beagler Forum

Dogs that hunt hard but dont produce a rabbit...
what would yu all contribute this too , when one will hunt hard but seems never jumps a rabbit ?
Lack of nose ?

Brains.

The best jump dogs I have seen were never the hardest hunters.

In every case, they just slipped around scenting the air and when they went in a place, they jumped a rabbit.

Many times a real hard hunter that tears up a thick place, shaking everything, will jump a rabbit and never know it. It is more "a run a rabbit out" than a jump dog and another dog will first open on the run out rabbit when it runs by them so it doesn't get the credit it should.

Still a good dog to have in a pack. Sure would get an A for its efforts.

WELLS WOODS wrote:Brains.

Something I think a lot of people over look these days.

I cant say why your dog isnt jumping rabbits but the best rabbit jumper i ever had did not have intense hunt or search
he just seemed to go straight to every rabbit in the field and jump it. i always thought it was nose power on this
particular dog that allowed him to do that jmo

Lack of Rabbits !

All kidding aside I agree with Alabama John that the hard hunter has a place in the pack. The dogs I have had that jumped the most rabbits were not the brush busters. I have 1 old male that never got more than 20 yards away from me before a rabbit was jumped, but he had a knack for wood pile diving. He could produce rabbits on hard cold days or hot afternoons. He rescued a bunch of hunts in his day.

bigcfromrbc wrote:

WELLS WOODS wrote:Brains.

Something I think a lot of people over look these days.

I dunno if its just brains, could be part of it along with nose too. Personally had 2 litter mate sisters, female 1 had so much hunt and desire it was unreal, she had enough hunt for 3 dogs but rarely jumped a rabbit, or should i say rarely knew she jumped a rabbit. She got into everything and sometimes a rabbit would go but she did not realize it right away, and some i have seen they know from feet away if one just moved let alone busted out from the nest. Female 2 her sister was as everyone states a jump dog is, didnt even look as if she was searching but jumped and jumped and jumped rabbits. The 2 of them together ran a rabbit together extremely well, and both could handle the front when their opportunity arrived.

Bred female 2 twice, the "jump dog" - "rabbit dog" and didn't get much out of either litter, basically junk IMO, but when we bred female 1 twice the "desire" - "hunt hound" that rarely produced a rabbit, we got real good rabbit dawgs out of both litters, same sire each breeding.

Could be she didnt have the brains as others do, could be she didnt have the nose others do either, all i know is breed that hound with desire, and if your real good female dont produce what your looking for then breed her litter mate sister ya normally may not breed cuz the gene pool is there.

Can't be nose, heck any rabbit hunter can walk through briars and jump rabbits, I bet they can't smell them either. I believe brains and experience is the two factors.

likemfast, The difference in their traits is not what made your bitches produce differently. God is. Some dogs are producers & some aren't in my opinion; male or female. I can live with both types of hunters; ones that hunt so hard they jump rabbits accidently & the ones that can ease around & locate rabbits like radar. Both are showing desire to search in their own way. To be a complete hound & a good jump dog a hound needs a lot of all three traits; desire, nose & brains; plus as Harner said, experience. Practice makes perfect. jmo

dave404 wrote:Dogs that hunt hard but dont produce a rabbit...
what would yu all contribute this too , when one will hunt hard but seems never jumps a rabbit ?
Lack of nose ?

I seen a lot of patch hounds just don't produce a rabbit but can run a deer good !

Casey Harner wrote:Can't be nose, heck any rabbit hunter can walk through briars and jump rabbits, I bet they can't smell them either. I believe brains and experience is the two factors.

Lol, yeah but how many can a rabbit hunter jump without the aid of his nose? Might only be 1 or 2 which wouldn't even feed me.

WELLS WOODS wrote:likemfast, The difference in their traits is not what made your bitches produce differently. God is. Some dogs are producers & some aren't in my opinion; male or female. I can live with both types of hunters; ones that hunt so hard they jump rabbits accidently & the ones that can ease around & locate rabbits like radar. Both are showing desire to search in their own way. To be a complete hound & a good jump dog a hound needs a lot of all three traits; desire, nose & brains; plus as Harner said, experience. Practice makes perfect. jmo

I agree totally on producing which is why I said breed both litter mates. But I would take desire and experience over brains and experience any day.
All hounds with so-called brains don't have desire.IMO, hounds with desire can make up for lack of brains and nose, just by having desire

I've said before and stick to it, ''I will take a kennel full of hounds with Desire over a kennel full of hounds with Brains any day."

I agree ; Desire is # 1.

likeemfast wrote:

Casey Harner wrote:Can't be nose, heck any rabbit hunter can walk through briars and jump rabbits, I bet they can't smell them either. I believe brains and experience is the two factors.

Lol, yeah but how many can a rabbit hunter jump without the aid of his nose? Might only be 1 or 2 which wouldn't even feed me.

WELLS WOODS wrote:likemfast, The difference in their traits is not what made your bitches produce differently. God is. Some dogs are producers & some aren't in my opinion; male or female. I can live with both types of hunters; ones that hunt so hard they jump rabbits accidently & the ones that can ease around & locate rabbits like radar. Both are showing desire to search in their own way. To be a complete hound & a good jump dog a hound needs a lot of all three traits; desire, nose & brains; plus as Harner said, experience. Practice makes perfect. jmo

I agree totally on producing which is why I said breed both litter mates. But I would take desire and experience over brains and experience any day.
All hounds with so-called brains don't have desire.IMO, hounds with desire can make up for lack of brains and nose, just by having desire

I've said before and stick to it, ''I will take a kennel full of hounds with Desire over a kennel full of hounds with Brains any day."

Usually if I'm running dogs and I walk around while I listen to them run I usually jump 7 or 8. I know I can't smell them.

I agree with you likeemfast desire is crucial trait.

In my hounds this is what I try to strive for...
-hunt/search: the ability to hunt for the desired game, find it, and produce it
- nose/trail: the ability to run the desired line with as much authority as possible, if line becomes lost, quick to find it again,( if line becomes lost, it goes back to hunt/search)
-intelligence ( brains ): the ability to do all the above to the best of THEIR abilities. A hound with brains also should be very adaptable to the environment it is given to run. Also have proper voice control.

Hounds are kinda like people. Give them a particular job to do and they might get it done, but all have diff ideas, work methods, opinions, on how to do it. One of my buddy's has a lil female that stays within feet from you as others are out hunting, soon as they strike one up, she will go out with them, BUT, once she gets there she will keep the whole pack glued to the line with minimal breakdowns. I've also seen some dogs that you drop them out of box, they will act like they are tearing a thicket up, hunting hard, and may push a rabbit out, and others run the fire out of it. It seems to them as though they have done their job and are done. To some it's what suits them in there pack, there hunting style, there technique. Others like myself, want a well rounded hound that can attempt to do it all. The best tool to find this is time in the field. ( experience )

likeem' You have got it right, I am always amused at those who believe otherwise!