The American Beagler Forum

Hi,
I would like to know the main difference between UKC and AKC field trial dogs. I noticed that I dont see some of the UKC dogs entered placing in the AKC trials or AKC in the UKC trials very much. I know some of the dogs are registered in both AKC and UKC though. I have learned about the different types of AKC trials though. Are the UKC dogs faster,slower or a real big difference? Thanks

I run both formats. The only difference I see is in UKC you can't have a dog that opens early. Other than that dogs run same speed.

Glenn Tyler

In UKC only top dog of cast goes on where AKC they can take all dogs out of a pack or no dogs out of a pack, also AKC has judges that are assigned by clubs not everyone is judging dogs, scoring is similar but not in point values, you dont call your dogs strikes, jumps, lines, or checks in AKC the judges make the decisions not the handlers, im sure im leaving alot out that is different but speed depending on the area you run AKC can differ but the akc midwest federation runs a hard hitting hound similar to what most ukc hb runs, also in AKC dogs must be AKC registered no grade dogs allowed!! Like i said i know im leaving stuff out but that is a start for you!!

[quote="johns03272008"]In UKC only top dog of cast goes on where AKC they can take all dogs out of a pack or no dogs out of a pack

That's not necessary true johns032, i Have won cast in UKC and have seen others win cast ,and hound didn't move on to final. If the cast winning hounds score is not in top four scoring hounds, that hound does not move on to the final. Only the top four scorers for the hunt go to the final, that is in the registered class. Champs and grand don't even have a final, top scoring hound for the day wins. IMO, has little to do with hound ability, but rather how many rabbits were in the spot your guide took u to. lower scoring winning hound in another cast, doesn't get the opportunity to run against other cast winner.

Big Mike wrote:

johns03272008 wrote:In UKC only top dog of cast goes on where AKC they can take all dogs out of a pack or no dogs out of a pack

That's not necessary true johns032, i Have won cast in UKC and have seen others win cast ,and hound didn't move on to final. If the cast winning hounds score is not in top four scoring hounds, that hound does not move on to the final. Only the top four scorers for the hunt go to the final, that is in the registered class. Champs and grand don't even have a final, top scoring hound for the day wins. IMO, has little to do with hound ability, but rather how many rabbits were in the spot your guide took u to. lower scoring winning hound in another cast, doesn't get the opportunity to run against other cast winner.

Totally did not think of that part of it!! Forgot only so many dogs go to final!! Where as AKC you can have to a 9 dog winners pack if the judges want to!!! I believe more ability is seen in AKC and if your dog is good enough it aint gonna get beat by a lucky dog just sticking its head in the right brush pile and winning with first strike!!! Overall best dog is gonna win for the day!! Also you will see slim to none 12-14month old FC in AKC where ukc could have hundreds!! Heck i have seen a barely started dog win in UKC HB by getting lucky and handler knew the corners of the game!!!

wvmuskyhunter wrote:I run both formats. The only difference I see is in UKC you can't have a dog that opens early. Other than that dogs run same speed.

Glenn Tyler

Sometimes a dog that opens early gets rewarded in UKC. Case in point; I was hunting last weekend and a dog opened after three minutes and was 10 seconds away from eating 100pts by himself. My dog and another dog jumped a rabbit and we struck in. So instead of us getting the points for the jump the mouthy dog 50 yards away got the most points..

Big Mike wrote:

johns03272008 wrote:In UKC only top dog of cast goes on where AKC they can take all dogs out of a pack or no dogs out of a pack

That's not necessary true johns032, i Have won cast in UKC and have seen others win cast ,and hound didn't move on to final. If the cast winning hounds score is not in top four scoring hounds, that hound does not move on to the final. Only the top four scorers for the hunt go to the final, that is in the registered class. Champs and grand don't even have a final, top scoring hound for the day wins. IMO, has little to do with hound ability, but rather how many rabbits were in the spot your guide took u to. lower scoring winning hound in another cast, doesn't get the opportunity to run against other cast winner.

In elimination hunts you move on if you win your cast.. So it depends on the style of hunt too..


In my opinion, some differences in the UKC dogs here that i run with and the Akc dogs I have owned is this; The UKC dogs tend to be faster, better jump dogs but don't have the line control that akc dogs do.. Also, they tend to run rougher in general.. But I know some AKC dogs are superb jumpers and some can't hold a line.. so it depends more on the line of dogs than it does the registry

Mobeagler what akc hunts have you been at?

Stav-- not a lot, a few brace trials is all i have ever found oddly enough...

But I have owned 6 AKC dogs directly out of FC dogs (mostly otis and shorts lines) I also have friends who only run AKC dogs (about another 12 to 15 dogs) and some of the UKC dogs are dual registered as well..

Just my observation of what I see. The akc dogs hold the line a bit better but UKC dogs win in the jump category.. Not always true in every circumstance, but it has been my experience.

I suppose you could make the argument that shorts and otis were true medium speed dogs with way above average line control and not indicative of all akc dogs on the speed issue...

I could never have brought my AKC dogs, to a UKC trial because they would have been 50yards behind the other dogs... I ran last year with some akc dogs in lesterville last year who were really really solid dogs but mine had the rabbit circled before they made it halfway up the line so we never ran them together after that. I switched to UKC dogs after I had some bad luck and some got killed, stolen and or lost and i stopped caring about papers.

Again, thats just my opinion of the dogs I have seen go....I know midwest has some fast dogs, but in general dogs who jump and get to a fixed point get the most reward in UKC so thats what is bred for... In AKC the dogs don't get the majority of points for jumping or simply being fast so they breed for different things..

With all due respect Mo Beagle, you are talking about the low end speed of AKC. Midwest runs a fast, hard hitting dog with control. Believe me when I say they are just as fast if not faster, due to efficiency, than UKC.

I am in the heart of the White River country. I have run with several UKC guys and my AKC lines do okay with there's, if anything the UKC guys around here really believe as you have seen. They believe AKC is medium speed, in fact they asked my buddy about my hounds and said, "his dogs are slower, correct?" Well I went and ran with there hounds scored more "lines" than theres did. Mine are by know means speed burners, but they will hold there own.


You have hounds that do win in both and they probably have a few traits in common. Good hunt, line control with speed, and point of loss check work. I think a hound with a nose to produce a rabbit will win in either, this "mouthy" comment is used a lot for a hound with a better nose than the others. I have "mouthy" hounds if that is the case, because a few of mine trail rabbits up and jump them 30-40 yds away. They move consistantly while doing this and jump a ton of rabbits like this.

To each his own, but a line running rabbit dog with upper medium speed can win in both if all things are fair.

Go to a Midwest trial you will like what you see, it is obvious the UKC has a ton of support and there are some nice hounds in it as well.

BCBeagles wrote: I think a hound with a nose to produce a rabbit will win in either, this "mouthy" comment is used a lot for a hound with a better nose than the others. I have "mouthy" hounds if that is the case, because a few of mine trail rabbits up and jump them 30-40 yds away. They move consistantly while doing this and jump a ton of rabbits like this.

If your dogs mouths and keeps moving it isn't mouthy... If it barks three times and stops for 2 minutes until another dog jumps a different rabbit, that is mouthy...

Your right, I don't know anyone that runs midwest, Its one reason why I went to UKC,in that format I don't have to figure out whether the hunt is a midwest trial, brace trial etc.. the akc dogs I have ran with are mostly medium speed. A friend I run with on here has akc dogs that are upper medium speed and hold the line really really well and jump their fair share.. But in an actual ukc hunt running with the fastest dogs... they just wouldn't win. Its not their style.

I hear a lot of guys at trials in UKC say they tried akc but their dogs get picked up for, "running to much rabbit" i.e. their dog is too fast and the rest of the pack suffers..

again, this is all what I have experienced or heard. Not worth getting blood pressure riled up, just a conversation... I would love to try a midwest hunt if they have one within two hours of me

mo, find a midwest style akc hunt and go watch it. i am positive that you will see a whole different style of hound than what you believe akc currently is. the only thing medium speed at a midwest style hunt are the old handlers and the judges trying to keep up on their horses ~! the hounds fly compared to about anything i have seen on alot of the videos. if your looking for a hunt we have one up here next weekend and if you come brig the fastest you got and then cross you fingers that is is fast enough. I thought I had fast hounds till i saw the foot on them little buggers that showed up. they made mine look slow!

Comparing a Ukc dog that's has all the titles too a Field Champion in the Midwest, is apples to oranges.

Mapel Valley Kennels LLC. wrote:Comparing a Ukc dog that's has all the titles too a Field Champion in the Midwest, is apples to oranges.

That was my thought but a lot of people think a midwest akc dog and Ukc dog are successful running together... Could you explain your thoughts a little more. I'm just curious...

I hear guys finishing dogs at 1 year old, it just seems to me it ain't that hard to have a Ukc champion, maybe somebody that runs it knows more than me. Making a Field Champion is the tuffest thing I ever chased.

Ya, I think its pretty easy to make HBCH but making GRHBCH is pretty comparable to a FC I would think..

You have to get 1 first and some cast wins to make hbch.. then you need five overall firsts to make grand, pretty hard to do.. Also UKC has more hunts too.. Aren't they limited to two trials at a club per year? UKC can have up to six so the volume of hunts would make it easier..