young dogs gone bad

[wonderdog]

seen another young dog starte to back track today. just like the others i have seen they get a year old and just start back tracking WHY ????????????? never seen this be in so meany dogs in the 27 years of running and these are out of good breeding { such as triple thirt and pleasant valley} dogs that i have seen in the years past would never start back tracking maybe they would not have enough foot or hunt or nose BUT never back track this is terrible. What kind of junk are people breeding out thier. Guess Branko is still on the top for best forward running rabbit dogs what you guys think.

[Dave Swiger]

Nature or nurture ????? Do you think that dogs are bred to back track or is it a learned action. I say learned. A problem of training and not genetics.

Dave

[Dale L.]

What i have noticed lately is so many dogs are over competitive. This my many was considered a bad thing, but so many trials reward for a dog that fights for the front and some will get it any way they can. The problem I have see is that when you pack several of these dogs together they get so competitive that when they make a loss or get to a hole often a young dog will begin to back track. It seems they are so set on taking the track first that when they get scent they go with it even if it is not the right direction. I don't know if this is the reason for what you have been seeing or not but I believe that is what is happening to alot of young dogs today. I have learned that if a dog worries more about getting to the front than running the rabbit he has to go because he will not please me when all is said and done.

[Big Mike]

seen another young dog starte to back track today. just like the others i have seen they get a year old and just start back tracking WHY ????????????? never seen this be in so meany dogs in the 27 years of running and these are out of good breeding { such as triple thirt and pleasant valley} dogs that i have seen in the years past would never start back tracking maybe they would not have enough foot or hunt or nose BUT never back track this is terrible. What kind of junk are people breeding out thier. Guess Branko is still on the top for best forward running rabbit dogs what you guys think.

I certainly won't dispute what you say, I surely didn't see them do it. However, the area i run has a lot of tree stands on the property and I usually climb one or two to get a good vantage points to watch the hounds run. I have seen rabbits use some pretty slick tricks to lose their pursuers. The ole paper clip move, and running right back down their old track is the most frequent . Had I not seen the rabbit with my own eyes , i would have sworn that the dogs were back tracking .

[pcable]

I have seen alot of pups started too early , in my opinion. Then put in the pack with tough dogs that can move a track very fast. If they can't keep up, they start to learn bad habits on their own. I don't like to start pups before they are big enough and mature enough to keep up. Alot of people will trial pups before they are a year old. I think thats too much pressure for a pup that young. Just my opinion!

[bucks better beagles]

This is such a softball Wonderdog. Since you are having a systemic problem with back tracking, I must ask what you are training them with? Secondly, it is up to the trainer to stop this behavior. It must be corrected immediately or it will become progressively worse.

[Alabama John]

Takes a better nose to run backward than it does forward.

Bucks is right, you must get on the backward line and kick them the other direction. If that doesn't work you can lay them up for a few months and try again. Call them and put them on a rabbit going the right way, follow as close as possible and if they start back turn them around.
See if any one dog is doing the leading in this and get rid of it.

[bucks better beagles]

Most hunters can tell when a rabbit goes to hole. If you are suspicious of your dog backtracking after you think the rabbit holed up, do something about it immediately. If your older dogs are doing it also, get rid of them since they are incorrigible. Persistence will carry the day in this matter.

[pineridgebeagles]

pcable,I agree 100 percent,I have seen alot of young dogs ruined by pushing to hard at a young age.Some young hounds can handle some of the preasure some cant.I have a 11 month old just start and have been told to get rid of it wont be any good.She ran her second rabbit ever as good as ive ever seen.I dont like to start mine until 7-8 mo old by themselves and ran solo after starting.I will put them with other dogs some to learn to pack but mostly solo until I feel they are a finished dog.Everyone has his own training methods,thats just how I do it with good results.Patience. Al

[bucks better beagles]

Question for Pine Ridge: You said, "I have seen alot of young dogs ruined by pushing to hard at a young age". How do you know that?

I assume you are saying that a young dog doesn't make the cut but how do you know it wouldn't have made it no matter when it was started. Some just don't have what it takes. You can't go back and redo your training methods so this statement is AFTER THE FACT.

My experience is that I start all my pups at 4 months old and run the hell out of them from then on. Them that make it, great. Them that don't can be moved on to people with more patience. I believe that a dog either has it or it doesn't and if it does, it will show it.

[fasttrackpa]

My experience is that I start all my pups at 4 months old and run the hell out of them from then on. Them that make it, great. Them that don't can be moved on to people with more patience. I believe that a dog either has it or it doesn't and if it does, it will show it.

[Casey Harner]

seen another young dog starte to back track today. just like the others i have seen they get a year old and just start back tracking WHY ????????????? never seen this be in so meany dogs in the 27 years of running and these are out of good breeding { such as triple thirt and pleasant valley} dogs that i have seen in the years past would never start back tracking maybe they would not have enough foot or hunt or nose BUT never back track this is terrible. What kind of junk are people breeding out thier. Guess Branko is still on the top for best forward running rabbit dogs what you guys think.

I certainly won't dispute what you say, I surely didn't see them do it. However, the area i run has a lot of tree stands on the property and I usually climb one or two to get a good vantage points to watch the hounds run. I have seen rabbits use some pretty slick tricks to lose their pursuers. The ole paper clip move, and running right back down their old track is the most frequent . Had I not seen the rabbit with my own eyes , i would have sworn that the dogs were back tracking .

+1

[bucks better beagles]

Wonderdog, what breed are you running. Branko really has no monopoly over "forward running dogs". All of them are supposed to do that.

[pineridgebeagles]

Buck im not saying what is right or wrong,its just what i believe is true to me after having alot of dogs for 45 years.Every one of my best dogs were started late and let mature at their own speed.Im not saying not to run the heck out them,I just do it later and maybe more controled than others.Every one of my best jump dogs were trained this way and ive had good results.I believe if you want great hunters they have to learn to hunt by themselves without other older and more experienced dogs.Ive seen alot of young hounds that were preasured at a young age loose interest,backtrack,or are me to dogs.I do know that a a dog that starts at 8-10 months catches up very quickley to a dog that starts at 4-5 months old,and by a year old is just as good or beter.Al

[bucks better beagles]

Pineridge, didn't mean to imply that my method was the only method. It works for me but I am a very impatient person. Most of the young dogs I get, do not make it. I don't like to feed them for a year and see that they still do not make it. The one or two that succeed are the ones that I think are the best dogs.