How Important is close check work?

[T LEE]

How important is close check work? My observation over the last 25 years tells me the dog that reaches a little out of the check area, recovers the loss 80% of the time. I run and judge in NKC Little Pack and see this time after time. When the cast has a check it’s ALL the dogs with the loss. Not just the front dog, middle dog or the dog pulling up the rear. The area the check occurs for some unknown reason the dogs can’t seem to smell the track anymore. To stay close to the point of loss (where they could Not smell to start with) seems pointless. This is the point a dog that will reach a little (to fresher ground if you will) and drive the recovered track out is worth its weight in gold. This gets the race going again and the dog recovering the track scored.

I’m Not saying a dog needs to reach to the next area code….. But to stay close in the same area and blow holes in the ground seems pointless. I hear the term “close check work” a lot. My observation is close check work will get the dog checked to death in a fast group of dogs. When rabbit hunting, it’s important to recover the track after a check. Most rabbit hunters value the dog that recovers it first .Maybe I’m the one missing the boat. I’m interested to hear other thoughts on this topic.

[BCBeagles]

I guess I would have to say i like a dog that reaches accurately. What I mean is dirft off of less scent to more scent. if this is 20 yards or 40 that is fine as long as they are not running crazy in every direction, I think that is just a waste of energy and time. I don't want them to blow holes either and they better not bark more than a couple times in one place as far as that goes for me. When I think reaching I think of a dog whipping and whirling in all directions and that is probably ignorance on my part. Dogs can and do reach accurately some A LOT better than others. I would LOVE to find a blend of both!!!

TLEE I am sure you have seen hounds that always seem to go "in the right direction" to find the loss. I am have seen them too. I know what you are asking and have thought about it many times myself.

[RunninHard]

I agree with BCBeagles, I guess what I am saying is they need to do it clean/accurately, not blowing it up or being crazy about it, I also would not own a dog that would stand there and blow a hole in the ground

[Casey Harner]

How important is close check work? My observation over the last 25 years tells me the dog that reaches a little out of the check area, recovers the loss 80% of the time. I run and judge in NKC Little Pack and see this time after time. When the cast has a check it’s ALL the dogs with the loss. Not just the front dog, middle dog or the dog pulling up the rear. The area the check occurs for some unknown reason the dogs can’t seem to smell the track anymore. To stay close to the point of loss (where they could Not smell to start with) seems pointless. This is the point a dog that will reach a little (to fresher ground if you will) and drive the recovered track out is worth its weight in gold. This gets the race going again and the dog recovering the track scored.

I’m Not saying a dog needs to reach to the next area code….. But to stay close in the same area and blow holes in the ground seems pointless. I hear the term “close check work” a lot. My observation is close check work will get the dog checked to death in a fast group of dogs. When rabbit hunting, it’s important to recover the track after a check. Most rabbit hunters value the dog that recovers it first .Maybe I’m the one missing the boat. I’m interested to hear other thoughts on this topic.

Nice topic, really enjoy other opinions on threads like this.


I like a dog that really stays tight in the check, because over the years I have seen some dogs gamble and get beat over and over again, because when they move out of the check the tighter dog will find it quicker. How so you might ask? When a dog that swings out, he is trying to find that same scent right?? Well he is doing more work than the other dog. Some cotton tails can run like hare, but most of them won't jump like a hare. So when the check comes up I believe and seen it with my own eyes that the closer check dog will accurately pick it up before the gambling dogs. Now do they always pick it up before the gamblers, no...but the percentage that I have seen the closer and cleaner dog usually does.

The first two dogs that I thought were the best close check dogs were, Green Bay Shooter and Fagan's Cotton Candy. Everyone knows who Shooter is, but Candy was a fast line control hound that had a clean check work about her, she worked a check very fast and aggressive. Candy and Shooter over worked those more gambling dogs that day. I will remember it well, it was raining like no other, I had on a green poncho and my much rubber boots. The field was coal mine was a little under water, probably a foot deep or so and the rabbit ran big, coast to coast and the hounds pinned them down and caught the rabbit. The race lasted around 3hrs.... it was awesome!!!!!


To me, its like a line control dog, coming up from the back and picking up the loss of over running the line. The dog that gambles usually in my experiences won't find it the check first. Now on Hare a gambling dog might find it faster. Also it depends on what format you run as well...


Great topic Mr. Lee, sorry I made my post so long. I just like topics like this....!

[Dave Swiger]

I too will agree with Jim and add that i believe that the dogs that seem to go in the right direction is not by chance. I think they develop this restrike knowledge with experience.

Dave

[da ridgetop]

I like a dog to work from the inside out snap back to the point of loss but dont stay and blow the woods down but will start circling small then bigger until it picks the check up. I lke a dog with a little gamble but for the most part when you get to gamblin it gets to be excessive and when scentin is good these type dogs can look good but if scentin is picky they will get there clock cleaned by a tight check dog JMO
Donald

[hounddog]

I won't go into details but you know how I like them, Troy.

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

[DINGUS MAN]

I agree with harnder. I will add it take nose power and some brains. The tighter working dog will out run the swinger and wider dog almost everytime. The wider dogs look for a track more than thaey run it. Line control my friends is a huge part of putting steady preasure on a rabbit. An over running hound is a sad thing to see IMO. Give me intense hunt,jump ability because you have to jump it to run it then grit, no quit line control at a strong medium speed. A line control hound will mop the floor when ran with over running track fast dog 99% of the time. Steady pressure with little breakdown is the key IMO. Check work is of the up most importance!

[hounddog]

I won't go into details but you know how I like them, Troy.

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

Well, I wasn't going go into details but now I think I will. I've been running these little hounds for more years then I care to think about. I think I have had every type of hound there is from walkie talkies to flat out race horses.
This is my observation. A line running hound is fine IF you have a lot of bad scenting days or if the terrain is EXTREMELY thick. Any other time they are left behind. I don't experience neither very often, therefore line control means nothing to me. I like a hound that runs a rabbit and not scent. I actually have a couple hounds that are what I call a good line control hounds and they spend most of the day trying to catch up with the hounds that are willing to gamble. BTW, I'm willing to run my hounds against any of the so called line control hounds just to prove me wrong. Not bragging but I have a hard time believeing something that I don't see with my own eyes. Again, I guess this is another one of those Different Stroke for Different folks.

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

[T LEE]

I like a dog to work from the inside out snap back to the point of loss but dont stay and blow the woods down but will start circling small then bigger until it picks the check up. I lke a dog with a little gamble but for the most part when you get to gamblin it gets to be excessive and when scentin is good these type dogs can look good but if scentin is picky they will get there clock cleaned by a tight check dog JMO
Donald

I have also seen dogs that over run the track and don’t have a clue as to which way the rabbit went. When a check happens it’s all dogs with the loss and not just the over runner. Some dogs have a talent for swinging, grabbing the track and leaving dogs in the dust.

I hear what several are saying but I’m unsure of how much pressure is actually put on these close check dogs. What I tend to see while judging is when a dog grabs a check ahead of a close working dog , the close working dog then has to pull to it. After several times of getting the rug snatched from under it ,the close working dog gets tired of having to play catch up and starts to watch for the swinger in checks with its head up. Some dogs can get blown up this way if they can’t handle the pressure.

I’m sure some tight check dogs out there can pick the track up before a talented high flying swinger but 8 out of 10 times you won’t see it happen in Little Pack. There are times the scent conditions are bad and a closer check dog will do well. Most guys don’t what to wait until bad conditions for their dog to excel in competition.

I think it just comes down to a personal choice in what each guy likes to keep. Great input guys, I enjoy hearing input from fellow Beaglers.

[DINGUS MAN]

T Lee,
Great post and great comments. I love to hear what everyone is running and their thoughts on hounds.

[Lance]

I’m sure some tight check dogs out there can pick the track up before a talented high flying swinger but 8 out of 10 times you won’t see it happen in Little Pack. There are times the scent conditions are bad and a closer check dog will do well. Most guys don’t what to wait until bad conditions for their dog to excel in competition.

Well no kiddin....a close check dog in a pack of LP dogs....sure he's not going to stand out....I've seen several times a high flying swinger is in with pack of quick, close working dogs..... high flying swinger really stands out as an idiot, often cheating just to be in the front. Talk about blowin up!!!! Let's see if this makes sense....High Flying swinger kicks butt in good scenting conditions, but the close working dog out does him in bad conditions....hmmm, I think I'll stick with the close working dog because I rabbit hunt in Dec, Jan, not March, April, or May. Another, thing TLEE, take a pack of quick, close, line running dogs vs. a pack of high flying swingers....which runs the rabbit better???

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Well here goes nothing.LOL ! This is one of the most talked about subjects/traits concerning beagles that there is.And taken to it's extreme I often think it gets way over done.I too believe that a beagle should run his rabbit smoothly and with a minimum of loses.That being said the faster and more aggressively the hound runs and operates the more some will consider that he is reaching or"gambling".When a hard hitting dog comes into the check area he may run by a slight distance but as long as he slams on the brakes AND SHUTS HIS MOUTH and comes right back to the point of loss I have no problem.He then will check for scent and finding no immediate scent will begin to open up his area of search in a very rapid but thorough manner and then fire out of the check with it.
Contrast this with the typical U.B.G.F. type of hound [that I have had the opportunity to watch on numerous occasions ].They are by no one's definition hard hitting or fast.When they come into a check I have seen all 7 in a cast ball up into each other and barking continously while not making progress "blowing a hole in the ground?" while they search and IF one of those hounds reaches out 20 feet they WILL pick them up.
I had the opportunity 4-5 years ago to attend the National Beagle Club's Triple Challenge event in Virginia.We were running in the brace [trio ] format that day.My hound is a Large Pack,Little Pack type of hound of hare breeding,the other two were gun dog brace and a formal pack hounds.We jumped a rabbit and the 3 dogs took it across an open meadow where we could see the entire race [my hound had the front by a fair amount ].We saw the check occur and all 3 dogs began to work the check at the immediate point of loss.The two slower type dogs NEVER got outside a 10-15 foot area and were bawling and chopping continiously and going nowhere.My hound WITH HER MOUTH SHUT checked the area they were working for about 30 seconds and then looped out about 50-60 feet,hit the line and left them with their pants down! So no, I don't neccessarily agree that those close check dogs will routinely make a faster dog look foolish.And guess what? The two judges were from gun dog brace association and the U.B.G.F. and placed my dog third in the trio and when I asked them later about it they said "she pulled too far out of the check area and was reaching".Well thank God for that ,otherwise that race was over.
Years ago I had many opportunities to run with a hound by the name of Briarpatch Black Magic bred by Roy Kennedy of Vermont and owned for years by my good friend Dan Lea.Magic was probably the best bare ground hare hound I've ever seen.In his prime I never saw the hound that could regularly get many checks on him.We'd see the hare come by and create a check and the pack would come in to the check area and start to work and you'd hear Magic hit it 50-100 feet out and be gone,time after time,day after day,year after year.I've seen other hounds get so discouraged trying to run with him they'd quit and go find their own rabbit.Was he a gambler?NO WAY as he was right most of the time.He just didn't waste any time looking for scent where it wasn't and had enough rabbit sense / brains to quickly get where it was.
I'm not saying one type of dog is any better than another and a lot of it will be what you prefer and/or if you participate in the rield trials and what format you attend.Some want the "close,clean,heads down,straight ahead" types and others want the "hit it and git it "type.After reading this you probably can figure out what I like!

[T LEE]

I’m sure some tight check dogs out there can pick the track up before a talented high flying swinger but 8 out of 10 times you won’t see it happen in Little Pack. There are times the scent conditions are bad and a closer check dog will do well. Most guys don’t what to wait until bad conditions for their dog to excel in competition.

Well no kiddin....a close check dog in a pack of LP dogs....sure he's not going to stand out....I've seen several times a high flying swinger is in with pack of quick, close working dogs..... high flying swinger really stands out as an idiot, often cheating just to be in the front. Talk about blowin up!!!! Let's see if this makes sense....High Flying swinger kicks butt in good scenting conditions, but the close working dog out does him in bad conditions....hmmm, I think I'll stick with the close working dog because I rabbit hunt in Dec, Jan, not March, April, or May. Another, thing TLEE, take a pack of quick, close, line running dogs vs. a pack of high flying swingers....which runs the rabbit better???

I take it that You don't trial in Little Pack.

To answer your question. I seldom eat a rabbit but enjoy field trialing and running dogs. If "I" was given a choice of two types of dogs to own............

(A) This dog will reach some in the check area but will out check most dogs it's on the ground with. Has a shot of winning any Little Pack trial entered. Under Bad conditions will struggle to circle a rabbit.

(B) This dog sure works a tight check. Gets out checked by rougher style dogs and has little to No chance of winning in the trials I enter. Runs a smoother rabbit (with no pressure on it) than dog "A" will.

Well, I guess I would have to pick Dog A.

The best part of All. We get to feed what each one of us like.

[hard on a check]

[quote="T LEE"]
(B) This dog sure works a tight check. Gets out checked by rougher style dogs and has little to No chance of winning in the trials I enter. Runs a smoother rabbit (with no pressure on it) than dog "A" will.

With no pressure on it??? The dogs that i see winning trials are the dogs that can run accurately under the pressure of their pack mates without getting rattled. The dogs that continue to work a close check,and run a accurate line within the pressure of the pack are the dogs that i see winning trials.