The American Beagler Forum

International paper company has banned running deer with dogs in South Carolina. Perhaps some of you don`t know but I.P. is the largest private land owner in the united states. Only the U.S. government is larger. I.P. stated the reason for the ban is complaints from others about dogs running across their property while deer hunting out of stands. This rule from I.P. will also hurt the rabbit hunters with dogs because it took both rabbit hunters and deer hunters to pay for the leases. The down side of this is with no place to hunt hundreds or even thousands of dogs will be terminated. Many letters have been written back to I.P. for them to reconsider this rule. This is truly the worst blow for dog hunters in South Carolina. Larry Parrott

Larry,

Don't they, IP, grow trees for paper for profit? Aren't they flamable? Haven't you hunters put out fires before and will again if on the property hunting? Wouldn't it be very costly if there trees burned because you weren't there?

Usually the almighty dollar cost wins out over any neighbor complaints about your dogs.

Negotiate!

A couple years back Bowater Paper went to a lease program here & all the wealthy deer clubs tied up 75% of the land & no dogs allowed. Today I went to a favorite hunting spot & dozers were running full bore, 200 townhouses & golf course community breaking ground on land condemed by the county & taken away from owners at tax appraisal 10 years ago but it wouldn't sell Industrial so now community development for wealthy Yankees. So another running ground bites the dust. I feel your pain Larry, we all are on the short end. I hope you boys work something out. I am debating even getting my 4 yr old boy interested in hunting because in my area may be no where to go by his teens. I think I will get him hooked on fishing we have a dozen lakes close so he will always have somewhere to go, but the price of Bass boats Whoooo!
Good luck Larry.

Larry,
I spoke with some of the boys from my club up there last night and they were telling me about it. We have land leased from Westvaco, and they think that Westvaco will follow the lead of Internatinal Paper. Several of the clubs in Kingstree had lands leased. There will be a bunch of hounds for sale, as you said in your post. I wonder if there were really complaints, or if they figure they can make the same money on leases, and maybe more to the still hunters. In Florida, the state gives the big timber companies taxbreaks for all the land they can lease for public hunting. It is a shame it isnt that way up there. I wonder if anyone has a way to fight this, or is it to late to fight? Was there any warning about this, i.e clubs advised that I.P. was receiveing complaints about them and they failed to correct the behavior? Surely some of these lands have had to have been leased to the same people for years. Everyone needs to realize how good they have it if they can run dogs when they want, as I am afraid that this is the future for houndsmen like us.

I think in SC and GA there is some major friction between the stand hunters and the dog hunters. Don't know much about other states, but have hunted quite a bit in SC and GA and have witnessed it first hand. Now I like a good deer race a much as anyone, but there are a lot of guys out there that give the sport a real bad reputation. I been to the big high dollar deer clubs that have huge tracks of land and invest huge amounts of $$ in food plots, tractors, deer stands, biologist to conduct research, etc.

Then a group of dog hunters will turn a dozen long legged hounds loose on Aunt Sally's 40 acres that borders the club every Sat. AM - and you can imagine how well that goes over as the hounds spend all of the first 30 sec. on land they have permission to hunt and the rest of the morning on posted land. I think in many cases the dog hunters have shot themselves in the foot on this one by not using better common sense.

It is sad, but the reality of it is that the days of running deer w/ dogs is becoming more and more difficult and less and less practical. Land is split up into smaller and smaller plots and people these days do care if you trespass and do care if your dogs run across their land. I'd guess you need access to 1,000 acres before even considering turning loose a pack of deer hounds.

Also, w/ land becoming harder and harder to find for hunting, hunting clubs w/ big bucks are going to get the land. I'd project that in the years to come if you don't own land or aren't a member of a hunting club you will not be doing much hunting. Hunting is a huge industry. Quail hunting and duck hunting have basically already become a rich man's sport and deer hunting is following fast.

In regards to I.P. - they will make decisions / laws based on the almight $. Stands hunters are willing to pay top $ for land. In my neck of the woods they are paying $10 per acre or more. And, stand hunters do complain about dog runners and my guess is that dog runners aren't complain about stand hunters.

Larry,

I understand how you feel as I have been joining a deer hunting club for the last several years for just that intent (rabbit hunting). This is bad news for all hunters in South Carolina. I think the reason this came about was a little plantation down in Georgetown County. We were actually holding our beagle field trials on the property leased by the deer hunting club. I am not sure exactly what we will do with the beagle club. We may have to disban the beagle club along with the deer club. I am just glad we have a small 40 acre rabbit pen to listen to the dogs run and not have to listen to the complaints. I know that a few bad apples can spoil the barrel and that should have been left to the clubs to deal with these bad apples. I don't know of many dogs that can read or are great civil engineers, I wish I owned one. I think we have seen an era in our lives come to an end here in South Carolina (Hunting With Dogs).

I think had the dog hunters and stand hunters been able to get along things would have went alot smoother for a longer period of time. I have seen all three types of clubs: strictly dog hunting, strictly stand hunting, and a few clubs that have both dog hunting and stand hunting. The latter of the three was the most courteous by far. They respected their dues paying stand hunter enough not to ride near his stand in the afternoons when he was stand hunting and he did the same. This is the way things should be handled this way everybody gets to hunt. Before long only the rich will be able to do any kind of hunting.

Never the less the dog hunters will have something to be happy about by the end of this year they will have saved a lot on their gas bill by not chasing those long legged dogs.LOL

Just My .02$ Worth,
Michael

Micheal,you are correct about the plantation in georgetown. He has personally e-mailed me and to make a long story short he hates deer dogs. The plantation is a long stretch that goes all the way to black river between clubs that run dogs. I.P. has had numerous phone calls from him and now he is trying to hold I.P. liable. I`m also a employed with I.P. at georgetown and have been for several years. Mark,you are also correct about westvaco following I.P. I was told last night that westvaco will do the same, however I haven`t seen it in writtng yet. N.C. beagler, I also agree with you about deer hunting being a rich mans sport. Ten years ago was offered $10.00 a acre for my property to just deer hunt. I`ve been truly blessed to actually have property, family and friends to run these ole potlickers. I`ll welcome you any time to come and run with me. But for gods sake don`t bring any deer runners. lol Terry, as my family and I drove up to your place last june I couldn`t help but see the golf course and all the buildings associated with it getting closer. Believe me when I tell you I know your pain. The wealthy northerners are retiring and coming here in droves. Large tracts of land are getting cut up into little tracts now all the time here and they call this progress. Larry Parrott