The Need to Cull

[mybeagles]

As I read through the For sale adds week after week I cant help but feel the beagling community is doing a poor job of culling out the average and low quality hounds. I have found through the years that if a dog doesn't perform well enough for me, its not going to perform any better for someone else. So what to do with the average or below average hound.

As I talk to the old time beaglers, one common practice with most was how agressively they culled low quality hounds. Today, there are far too many people putting these average or below hounds up for sale just to bank $100-$400 when you know they are not of any value in the woods.

Is there no shame to passing along junk out of your kennel for everyone to see where it came from? So many kennels today have such a long storied history of producing junk that the beagling community almost expects their pups to be average or below. The fact that we are accepting this I think its real unfortunate.

You guys that ALWAYS have 3 or 4 dogs for sale........we know you are peddling junk. For you that dont know it, WAKE UP!

The result of the these "crap eaters" in the system, prevents an honest beagler from getting a fair price for a quality beagle. I believe a finished hound should bring $1000 or more. A well started hound should bring $500 or more. The problem is, when someone starts seeing faults in a young hound or has not given the pups the time they deserve they slap it for sale for $200 making everyone rightly question the value of any hound for sale.

Thanks for letting me vent....

Mybeagles

[chapkosbeagles]

you hit the nail on the head

[Tim H]

First, I want to clarify my definition of culling. Dogs that I consider as not capable of reaching my standards for a working dog are culls and I place them in pet homes with an agreement not to breed.

Now, to the point. I don't see how someone charging less for what you consider less quality hounds will lower the price on higher quality hounds. I would also consider some of the lower quality being caused by the need for more beagles because there are more people buying beagles then what used to, as a result the quality gets wider spread. If someone is breeding high quality beagles then they should be getting a fair price out of them. If they are not then maybe they are not breeding as high quality as they think they are or maybe are breeding too many themselves and not culling as aggressively as they should.

I don't tell others what to cull or keep. Nor do I tell people what dogs they should or should not spend their money on. This country is founded on freedoms. I may disagree with them but I won't tell them that they need to do things my way. I'll exercise my freedom to enjoy beagling the way I like and won't begrudge anyone else doing it the way they like.

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Tim- I think thats the point of the question and survey....

People will now sell a dog because they can make money rather than killing the animal which is also now under attack by the anti's and then that dog will breed because the owner doesn't know his dog sucks or has some awful trait and then there are 8 more out there to be sold to people... But I learned my lesson by now and I will buy dogs from only a handful of people... and normally they have a waiting list and breed very very few times

[bigdogpace]

MOST DON'T KNOW WHAT A CULL IS

[Ron Conroe]

if you are gonna breed beagles, then you need to learn to cull.

[Tim H]

Everyone posting here has to be making the assumption that THEY are the ones who know what should be a cull and what should not. Also assuming they know what should be done once someone decides a dog is not worthy of being a hunting dog. Who are you all to make those decisions for someone else? The original post was complaining about not being able to make enough money off "quality hounds" and yet there are posts saying others are greedy and trying to make a buck off of their hounds. Is one "moral" greed and the other not?

If you don't like what someone breeds then don't buy it. If they can sell what they breed to someone else and they are happy then what business is it of anyone else? Who gets to decide what is a cull, what is quality and what is the "right" price for it?

I want quality dogs out there as much as anyone else but I don't think telling someone else that they aren't doing it right is the best way to accomplish the goal. It is interesting how easy it is to see the kennel blindness in others and yet I don't see any self professed kennel blind people.

How about talking about our own kennels and what we need to do to improve what we have. In other words focus on what we can do, rather than what we think others should do.

[RiverBottom]

Who is buying all these culls for $200? I couldn't sell the best dog in my kennel for $50

Seriously, I tend to agree with Tim H. Prices are set by supply and demand. Good bobcat dogs sell for thousands of dollars. Coon dogs that can win in the hunts sell for thousands of dollars. Good beagles sell for around $400. Culling more isn't going to change that. The demand just isn't there, and it is much easier to raise and train a good beagle than a good bobcat dog. If you are tring to make ends meet by selling beagles to rabbit hunters, you better have a backup plan.

If you don't think the dogs you are hunting have been culled enough, then cull more. As for the next guy, who cares? I figure it's none of my business what anyone else does. I sure don't want anyone else loosing sleep thinking about what I do.

[bucks better beagles]

I have to agree with Tim H. Who should tell another what a cull is. The price of a dog has nothing to do with its aptitude to please another person. Believe me, I know from which I speak. You can pay $100 for a $100 dog or $400 for a hundred dollar dog but, you still have a $100 dog. I have a kennel full of dogs from various FC. They all sold high as puppies and honestly, none of them can match my dogs that were bred just to be rabbit dogs. I put an exorbitant amount of time into handling and taking care of my dogs. I sell them cheap and guarantee everyone I sell to suit the buyer. I cull where necessary but if someone can find a better dog at a better price, I say buy it. That is the free market system.

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

The free market is good and well if your selling or buying dogs.. not so much if your selective breeding and want high quality dogs with low cull rates... your talking about an open market system operating within the confines of a limited supply (good dogs) comparing the two are not even really possible as they are open and closed systems....

However, from a free market perspective ya, go ahead and sell what you can to make a buck and if the other guy gets screwed or a faulty product knowingly or unknowingly that's his problem...I personally don't deal with those people...

[ddetar00]

Weill... to start another direction of the same topic... how we cull.

I only have 6 hounds... love them all, they run a rabbit as I feel they need to for me to enjoy my weekends and escape from reality for a few hours.
one has a bark I do not necessarily care for... but it is distinctive and easy to point out, and used properly. I guess some would cull this hounds because
of the "undesirable" trait... but she is a hell of a good rabbit dog and they would have missed out on this.

And by this post we assume that all beagles are looked for to run rabbits? Absolutely not!!! My first gyp was gun shy and would not leave the truck,
she threw two beautiful litters of some darn hard hunting hounds... but again she would have been culled by some becasue she did not like the
gun. She gave me and my family 14 years and 13 puppies that we thououghly enjoyed... and she was not bought as a hunting hound.

Finaly... I am not a tree hugin activist by any means... but I am humane... I will take a hound that I do not see fit for a breeding program and get it
spayed or neutered and give it to some child that just wants the love of a beagle before I "CULL" it. Those with less morals are why the activists have such
a strong hold in legislation...

My two cents.... which is probably worth about that much...

[mybeagles]

The original post was complaining about not being able to make enough money off "quality hounds" and yet there are posts saying others are greedy and trying to make a buck off of their hounds. Is one "moral" greed and the other not?

Just to clarify, Im not into selling dogs. Ive sold 5 running dogs in the last 25 years which equals about 1 every 5 years. They were sold when size was wrong or speed was wrong.

I understand supply and demand which is why I think it affects the price when the market is flooded with low quality dogs. If you dont have a supply of crap eaters, buyers are forced to buy a better hound and will likely have to pay a better price. Not everyone can maybe follow this logic, but it seems clear to me.

Anyway, I wanted to vent......look at the poll results......someone agree's???

Mybeagles

[tenntreedog]

What I might cull may be the leader of someone elses pack. differnt people want differant things out of thier dogs . I will offer to let any body that wants to by a dog from me come see it run .then they can decide to buy or not. your culls might suit me fine and my culls may suit you.Best to try before you buy.

[bill huttozac]

My thoughts. People breed dogs for different reasons. Ninty nine percent of those with resonable experience under their belt know that it is not a profitable thing. It is as true today as it ever was; one man's trash is another man's treasure. As for the value of a dog, it is worth exactly what someone will pay for it. No more and or less.
Beagles are bred and trained to suit the likes of different owners. One style of Beagle does not satisfy all. In summery, breed what you like, keep or cull what you see fit and do not waste your time fretting over how much many or few dollars someone sells his hound for. Folks, this only a hobby !!

[Fleetwood]

Well said Bill. I currently own a "cull" that an older beagler was kind enough to give me. She's a great rabbit dog, circles them to the gun, rides with me in the truck everywhere, and my 3 little girls think she hung the moon. I'm pretty sure she thinks the same about them as well. Point is, the older beagler did it right.