competiveness in a dog?

[dave g]

me and one of my buddies have been discussing this for about a month now. i have one dog and he has two and when they run together they can be very competitive getting the front. my buddy gets so frustrated with it. it doesnt bother me. it also seems that if they create a big check, according to my buddy it is always my dogs fault for making his dogs not turn with the bunny
i dont want to sound blind to my dog and say he doesnt do anything wrong but he is very competitive with these dogs for some reason. it is kinda like he doesnt trust that they can run the rabbit and he just runs up and steals it from them when they jump one. anyways what do you guys think about a competitive dog and a little bump and grind on the line? i dont field trial and have never been to one but i would think that if a dog did not have the strong desire for the front it would not fair well.

later, dave

[Bunnyblaster]

For whatever the reason if a dog is so competitive that it disrupts running the rabbit and creates checks then either I don't want it or you have to not run it with other competitive dogs otherwise all you end up with is a mess. My brother in law had a male that I don't believe was super competitive but he would do anything to run a rabbit and he wanted all of it. It didn't matter if you ran him with competitive dogs or not that's just how he was. At times he looked like a million bucks and at times I could have just choked him to death but looking back we sure had some good times killing rabbits with him and the other dogs.

Personally I don't like a dog that will steal a track just to steal it. I want a dog that can and will run the front when it's there but will also slot up when it's not in the front. I want the dog to run the rabbit not get into a race to get to the front of the line.

[lee ga]

A small amount of competetive spirit may be ok, but there is a fine line.Nothing wrong with a little bumping and grinding if both hounds happen to bump heads while going at their own pace running rabbit. When they get over competetive and start banging just for the sake of being upfront is where the problems start.

[hounddog]

I like a competive dog. To me, that's a dog that wants to catch a rabbit, not just run were the rabbit has been. If they don't want the front, they lack desire in my book.

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

[george pirman]

The real question is "ARE YOU GETTING A GOOD CONTINUOUS RUN"? If you are getting good steady continuous, NO CHECKS OVER 30 SECONDS, type of runs then you can kill the rabbit when it comes back. When the rabbit is first jumped do you stay in your spot and get the kill as the rabbit comes back. If the rabbit comes back and goes for another circle do you stay in your spot and get a continuous run. Run him slow or run him fast BUT do not have checks, do not have losses, have a continuous run and bring the rabbit back. Thats the way to rabbit hunt with a single shot .410. George

[T LEE]

I'm with you Jim. I'll take a competitive dog with a strong desire over a mediocre pack dog any day of the week.

[Big Dog]

Over competitive dogs are just what is wrong with beagling right now, I hear terms like dog doesn't fight for the front enough, or dog didn't get enough of the front, or dog doesn't swing enough in the check. The truth of the matter is half of the dogs can't handle the front when they get it, just causing needless checks because they are outrunning their noses, and trying to get the front, or cutting out a part of the line to get to the front at any cost. I often hear people at arha trials brag about their dog scoring 300 or 350 points in an hour, If you really think about it ask yourself the question: If that dog scores that many points and the others score at least some points then just how good was that pack of dogs, truly it is a sign of a sorry a-- pack of dogs that can't keep a rabbit going. Now I like arha trials, but the name of the game is keeping the rabbit going, not how many times we can lose it for 15 seconds and then get it started again. A lot of AKC judges will pick up from the front, many times the flashy dog that is always on the front and checking them to death is the same dog that is causing check after check because he doesn't have any control. People need to look at whats running the rabbit and what is making the turns, not just what is on the front, the first question I ask is how did he get there, and what did he do when he got it. If he is running on the outside constantly trying to overtake his pack mates at all cost then he is the first one that needs to go to the truck, He may look good at times, but he may be doing more damage than good. I want them to have some footspeed, but I want them to handle the front when they get it, not just constanly overrunning and guessing and looking good one minute and like a blooming idiot the next. In the end we all feed what we like, but speed with little or no control is worthless as the tits on a boar hog. Just stating my opinion. LOL

[T LEE]

Big Dog.. send those "flashy dogs that is always on the front and checking them to death is the same dog that is causing check after check because he doesn't have any control" dogs my way.

[S.R.Patch]

Dave,
I'd guess your running young patch dogs together, what else would you expect?
3X's solo, 1X pack. If you got some older hounds, mix the pups in 1 at a time till they mature and settle...you got to break the motor in right, not drive it like you stole it from the start... ...jmho
If you want a more mellow hound but yet in the patch blood, get you some Yates breeding, they were bred to hunt and for the spo trials down south, they come with more of a governor on the motor from the start but grow old quicker.imho
At 3 years old you pretty well see what you got in either type. A blending of the two has proved to make a well rounded hound. Each breeder seems to add heavier on one than the other according to their likes and dislikes.
That's the thing with looking at finished running hounds when picking pups, you don't know how they developed and what it took to get them there. If the breeder would tell you what to expect as the puppies develop and how you should go about avoiding problems, I think people would not become disgusted or give up hope too soon.
Best of luck with your pups.

[dave g]

s.r., lol nope just one patch and my buddy has two littermate bluetick grade dogs. mine is going on 4. my buddies are going on two. it is funny actually when hondo runs with sidebyside's brody patch dog we dont have the competiveness. and also when i run with another guy who has weir creek dogs we dont have issues neither. i have ran my dog with a some different dogs now and never have i seen any competitive ISSUES until we put these three together. i have even ran my patch with a couple ubgf dogs last spring and that guy even complimented hondo on how he can run the front with control. i was pleasantly surprised to hear him say that. i will not deny my dog is competitive but never would i have thought of him as overly competitive.

great discussion. keep the replies and thoughts coming.
of course i like Jim's reply the best but one of the prettiest sights is when a good pack of dogs is single file running that bunny.

later, dave

[Big Dog]

Hello Troy, miss running with you guys down in NC. I don't typically pass those kind on because I hate them, If I sell it then the dog has to at least be what I call (in my opinion) a rabbit dog. It may not have enough foot, may bark in the kennel, or may have some other quirk that I can't deal with, but if it is just a front end at all cost dog, that constantly causes checks, noone else will probably ever see it. I will not sell a dog with stigma that it can win at the trials but aint no rabbit dog, there are too many of them out there already and I despise them. I have owned a couple of dogs in my day that could get nasty at times, but they all could hold onto it when they got it, In my old age I guess I have changed my wayward ways. LOL

Big Dog

[biged39]

Amen Big Dog - just too many of um around.

[T LEE]

I guess I look at it a little different. The front dog seems to always get the bad rap. If the other packmate's were truly running the rabbit and Not the front dog ...wouldn't they turn the front dog from behind and Not have the check to start with???

In most cases I see the "Flashy" dog that reaches a little and grabs the track recovers the Check 80% of the time.

We all like something a little different. As for me....I'll take a "Flashy" dog over a line running ,medicore , pack dog that doesn't do much Wrong but Not enough Right to stand out. JMO

As long as we are all happy with the dogs we run...that's all that matters.

[Tsa la gi]

Hey Dave,
Let them complain,I have found out that the same people that complain about a competitive dog would be BRAGING if they had a dog that was as good as Hondo.I trained Hondo and the rest of my very competitive dogs. Mine are rough some times and if people don`t like it don`t hunt with me.
If ya run once with me and you don`t want to run with me again LEAVE UR dogs at home.

As far as field trials

Come run if ya want.

[dave g]

oh chuck i have been on the edge of my seat waiting for your reply. yep my buddy still wants to hunt every saturday with me and hondo so....

later, dave