The American Beagler Forum

First off all this is a hypothetical question not about anyone,any line of dogs or any style of dogs,so please don't let it go that way.I just want to see how people feel about there line of dogs. Heres my question.You've been raising a line of dogs for several years trying to improve them into what you like as a rabbit dog.You recently meet a fellow beagler and have since ran dogs with him on several occassions under various conditions.There is no doubt in your mind that his dogs, young and old ,just flat out dominates yours to the point that it would take you years of breeding and luck to get the kind of dogs that he already has. Here is the loyality part,what would you do? (A) accept that your dogs are inferior,buy some of his get rid of yours and start again (B) breed your best to his hoping to get rabbit dogs like he has or (C) ignore the fact that his dogs are better and continue on with your own bloodline and keep trying to improve on it

I would just stop running dogs with him.just kidding
or chose answer B

I run what I like, if they get beat they get beat but they are still the dogs I want in my kennel. Getting beat is all in perspective, if they are slower but run the line and keep the run going are they really losing?

I agree with letumrun I would just quit running with this guy and find somebody new that has crappier dogs than me. Well actually most on here like myself are kennel blind enough that we would never see that somebody elses dogs dominated our own dogs.

B, always looking to improve.

Dogman wrote:First off all this is a hypothetical question not about anyone,any line of dogs or any style of dogs,so please don't let it go that way.I just want to see how people feel about there line of dogs. Heres my question.You've been raising a line of dogs for several years trying to improve them into what you like as a rabbit dog.You recently meet a fellow beagler and have since ran dogs with him on several occassions under various conditions.There is no doubt in your mind that his dogs, young and old ,just flat out dominates yours to the point that it would take you years of breeding and luck to get the kind of dogs that he already has. Here is the loyality part,what would you do? (A) accept that your dogs are inferior,buy some of his get rid of yours and start again (B) breed your best to his hoping to get rabbit dogs like he has or (C) ignore the fact that his dogs are better and continue on with your own bloodline and keep trying to improve on it

Easily A. To me its not about ME and if the guy has a better line and is willing to part with some why not? Foolish pride has got in the way of many a hunter improving his pack. A guy that can see the faults in his dogs and the good in others to the point he'd be willing to convert lines is just as smart a houndsmen as the guy with the better dogs. The guy with the better dogs probably got those through trial and error and seeing other dogs run the same way and was smart enough himself to go with the right bloodlines.

To me option b and the end of option c are the same????? How are you supposed to improve on your line if you're not breeding to better dogs you run accross?

In 1992 I had the opportunity to see I.F.C. Maravic's Blue Ninja and his littermate sisters Missy and Mimi while they were being run on the Large Pack trial circuit.I was very impressed with their running style,conformation and personalities and the reputation of their sire [Branko's Jack of all Trades] and dam [Branko's Greenbriar Tootsie ].I decided that this was the type of hound I wanted in my kennel.So 18 years later the four females I have in my kennel all have Ninja in their pedigree having him top and bottom. Their pedigrees also show Branko's Conna [Ninja's littermate sister ] and Ninja's sire Jack numerous times.
I continue to like what I get out of dogs bred this way and feel that the linebreeding gives the kind of consistancy I want. There are still enough dogs of high calibur bred this way around so I feel I can breed to a dog with charecteristics that mine may lack but still beeding witnin the "family"so to speak.
If I were to see and be impressed with someone's else stud that was a total outcross to my dogs I would be open to breeding out to him trying to improve on what mine might lack but then I would come right back the next time by breeding one of those daughters back to the line that I'm "loyal" to I guess you could say.
I don't necessarily think that this family of dogs is superior to any others but I really like the consistancy of good hounds that it produces.So many beaglers jump from one bloodline to another and usually base their decesions on the stud [trialing flavor of the month???? ].
I have two Reggie females and one out of his brother Thunder Blue.Someone said to me" oh you're trying to cash in on that World Champion and Turbo dogs".Truth of the matter is that I was more interested in those females as their mother is a half brother x sister cross from Ninja. I didn't know all that much about Turbo at that time except that he was a Jack grandson.
Bottom line you should keep what YOU like but not be kennel blind as to how you can improve them.

Hands down A. Don't mean we have to git rid of our own line, just quit breeding them . Only improving the breed over all for yourself and some others.

Everybody has been outrun on a given day, if not, you just haven't been hunting with enough different people. If you have been hunting/ breeding for years & someone dominates you, CONSISTANTLY, assuming you both run the same style dogs, you need to be doing something else because apparently you don't cull hard enough or you settle for mediocre dogs. In that case you need to start letting the dominating breeder do the breeding & you just get your hunting dogs from him.
I think hounds in general, would be better off if there were fewer breeders & more hunters. I too would abandon what I have & go with the better dogs if I got dominated consistantly.

Plowboy

I've got to go with the others who say option A. If you recognize it would take you say, ten years to get what he has, it will still take you five by breeding them to your own, if they even nick. If your dogs can contribute something those dogs don't already have. That's a lot of ifs. This guy has bred most of the ifs out. Buy his dogs and have what he has now. Then your challenge will be finding dogs of equal worth to breed them to when the time comes.

In other words, if you see a good wheel, get it, don't try to reinvent it. One generation and that line begins to become yours.

Plowboy wrote:
I think hounds in general, would be better off if there were fewer breeders & more hunters.

Plowboy

i liked your post Shady grove.

and Plowboy, you preach it brother. i like the way you think!!!

I would say A. If you really like his lines of dogs and they're that much better than what you have then I would jump ship. Why not start out breeding what you like in a hound, instead of breeding to get what you'd like to get and still not be sure that's what you're gonna get. To me it's a no brainer.

Hey Man
1st all being equal speed, line control, conformation and hunt. the same style of dog you are breeding. And you know his dogs are 8-10 years BETTER than yours. In my very humble opinion. you shouldnt be breeding what you have anyhow.
So I would have to say, A. I would start over.