The American Beagler Forum

I got a question I would like some opinions on. Most of the hounds I have seen that would cold trail some or open earlier than other had better noses. If a hound does lack
in the brains area a bit and opens a little early on little scent compared to others why is this a disqualifying factor in breeding that hound, Male or Female? I want big noses
and hunt together like we all do. Would breeding a female with a big nose that will open early at times be a bad decision in bettering the noses of your pack and your dogs
as a whole(Line you Like)? Is crossing these style of hound with a complimentary hound not how you better what you have? I agree you need to cull hard for consistancy, but
how do you improve to more of what you like if you don't breed a hound that has many things you want? We breed and linebreed for what we like. What if the line you like does
not have a characteristic you like? Say hunt or nose, do you not go out and breed for that? I just wonder sometimes how breeding has taken some of the game producing
characteristics out of the hounds of today? Cold trailing is an area that is sketchy for me at times and another post just made me think about it more. Am I being an irresponsible
houndsman and breeder for breeding a female that will open early at times? That is what I am asking. I have a couple females that fall into this category and consider them
nice hounds. They have good the great hunt and can both circle rabbits in tough conditions and in easy conditions and at times look good at it. They both handle exceptional and
are both as trash free as any dog could be. Am I going about this the right way in what I have? I like them in many, many ways. Just looking for some feedback. Thanks much!!

if a dog opens early i dont fault that as long as the rabbit is produced in a reasonable amount of time. if the dog countinues barking and not producing time after time then that is a dog with more nose then brains.

Mullins Beagles wrote:if a dog opens early i dont fault that as long as the rabbit is produced in a reasonable amount of time. if the dog countinues barking and not producing time after time then that is a dog with more nose then brains.

Agreed

They produces rabbits a very high percentage of the time. They both jump multiple rabbits on a good day. It is not common for either of them to jump 80-90 percent of
our rabbits in a day combined. There is a few times when they will pop off and not produce, I tone or lightly shock them on this every time. I did not raise these females
and they were started by guys who did not crack down on them early enough, I feel. They are both smart hounds when it comes to the tone or shocker. They are not barking
excessively all day everyday and when run up more I have very few issues with either of them. I am looking to build around solid hounds. And in all but this area they are
solid. They both can and will regularly be the ones coming out of a hard check with the rabbit on the tough days and I love them for that. I just want to be able to improve this
in them. Neither were from litters where this was a dominant trait. I feel by breeding them to tight mouth big nose hounds I can get more of what I like? Hoping to improve
my stock and take me to the next level.

BC beagles, it really depends on the conditions and terrain you hunt in.

If I was hunting/running where the conditions are ideal in high rabbit populations I would have no use for a dog that works or opens on a cold track. But where I live it's tough the majority of the time, plain & simple.
Up here those dogs that open on a cold track when the scenting is decent are the only ones that can run a hare when the going gets tough.
There are exceptions to this rule...... but they are few and far between.

I've heard this talk of "BIG NOSE" hounds that don't ever open early or always have an honest mouth but I've got to say that I don't believe these hounds and the folks that run them have ever hunted what I would call tough conditions.
EVERY ONE OF the coldest nose/biggest nose/strongest nosed, hounds I've seen opened early when the conditions were favorable and showed what most would call extra mouth.

P.S.

They also jumped the hare more often than not

Bc ,I understand your dilemma .Dogs arent perfect they will make a wrong bark now and then even if they are atight mouth type dog .I like a big nose hound I have this in my females and my Tuna dog with Tuna having a big nose .I dont like ahound that barks early even if it produces it most of the time even for gun hunting ,so I would not my self breed this type of hound .I have owned several that could flat do it all but would pop off and usually a lil more on frosty days .when I ran the ole dog hollow dogs (blue cap) We tried breeding a female that was tough in all areas and made a ukc hbch in 3 hunts but would pop off ,to a male with big nose but honest mouth ,the pups out of this cross were the mouthiest I had ever seen .I know none of the hounds in the males pedigree were mouthy ,but anyway I breed tighter mouth dogs and have been successful so far .

i hate tight mouthed dogs therefore i have learned to live with a off bark now and then,even thow none i have at this time will do it but i wouldnt hesitate to buy or breed one that does as long as it didnt do it real bad.

It is something where I want to first build a solid stock for me and the future. I also want to sell a few here and there and I am brutally honest about hounds. I am the type to
be overly critical of them. I guess I might have to hold onto more of the pups the first litter and see what I get. I am not satisfied in selling my junk to others. They will come
up missing if they can't suit me. But, I like both of these females and feel I could not improve much, if any, by moving them to try for more. Thanks for the feedback. Please
keep the opinions coming.

LaMarr Rhoades wrote:i hate tight mouthed dogs therefore i have learned to live with a off bark now and then,even thow none i have at this time will do it but i wouldnt hesitate to buy or breed one that does as long as it didnt do it real bad.

I love big noses! I also will tolerate a few barks here and there, and and every once in a while I love to see these big nose dogs try to line out a track that most wouldn't. But, there is no way you can claim you have a big nose dog that doesn't off bark. Big nose will always give you early bark...period! I love em and will always have one in my kennel! Now, with that said there is a big fat line between big nose verses ghost running. This will drive you nuts!

I've heard this talk of "BIG NOSE" hounds that don't ever open early or always have an honest mouth but I've got to say that I don't believe these hounds and the folks that run them have ever hunted what I would call tough conditions.
EVERY ONE OF the coldest nose/biggest nose/strongest nosed, hounds I've seen opened early when the conditions were favorable and showed what most would call extra mouth.

I have NEVER seen a BIG NOSED hound with a TIGHT mouth......Some might say they have a big nosed hound that WONT open early but i have YET to see one....
Almost ALL the big nosed hounds I have been around will open on a Cold track Early the Difference is THEY PRODUCE....
I Raise hounds to Track Rabbits with and I LOVE to hear a good Voice What good is a Tight mouthed hound if ya Caint hear em Work a track?

I love big noses! I also will tolerate a few barks here and there, and and every once in a while I love to see these big nose dogs try to line out a track that most wouldn't. But, there is no way you can claim you have a big nose dog that doesn't off bark. Big nose will always give you early bark...period! I love em and will always have one in my kennel! Now, with that said there is a big fat line between big nose verses cold trailing or ghost running. Thise will drive you nuts!

What is the HARM in having one that will Cold trail a little??? i just have a hard time with this..
Dont most own Dogs to listen to them...To hear the difference in the voice as the track gets hotter!!! To hear em Get more and more excited the closer they get...Now I dont like a hound that will Cold trail a track and NOT produce the rabbit given a Certain amount of time. but if i caint wait a few min for the line to get hot then i guess i may as well run greyhounds..
I Have both types in my Line more hot nosed tight mouthed type hounds but EVERY ONE of them Will come runnin as soon as those big nosed dogs open up and Work the track right along with em. they may not open but they will work the track...
The Big nosed hounds Dont do as well in the trial circuit but as far as huntin Goes i wont be without one.I have seen them Get a rabbit up When it is 17 and just as well when its 90 on those hard scenting days they seem to be the ones you count on to get the race started....I Aint dissin the hot nosed tight mouthed hounds if thats what ya like More power to ya i just cannot understand those that Dont want to hear the hound open up..
Now I Do not like one that will Stand in the check area and Boo Hoo around either i want them Workin that line out..
I have seen more than one race Saved By that big nosed hound...

TC

You just said it all in better words than I did! Nice post...I love to gun hunt with one big nose and one tight mouth dog in a pack. that gives you a beautiful 1, 2, punch. Every big nose dog i have ever owned will bark early and run lines that most wouldn't. If they didn't do that how could you ever say you have a big nose dog?

I am a gunhunter only as well. I just get in the mind set of thinking as though I trial. Those are some valid points about nose power. I guess I am maybe asking
for too much in wanting the big nose and not extra mouth. Both these females can circle rabbits in snow or heat. It does not matter to them. they will hunt hard and
sometimes trail up and jump rabbits the other hounds just will not open on until jumped and moving out. What some guys on here refer to as cold trailing to me is
trailing a moving rabbits scent from 15-20 minutes ago or more. I am going to sacrifice the mouth within limits cause if they get enough rabbit to bark I want them to
bark. They jump a lot of rabbits by trailing them 20-40 yards and out they come on one running for his life. I guess sometimes I would rather them keep there mouth shut
until they are looking at them, but the are trail hounds that are born to open on scent. Would you all feel comfortable in breeding a female like I have described?
All opinions welcome, good or bad? Thanks for all so far!

Chippewa01 wrote:

Mullins Beagles wrote:if a dog opens early i dont fault that as long as the rabbit is produced in a reasonable amount of time. if the dog countinues barking and not producing time after time then that is a dog with more nose then brains.

Agreed

Kudos not much more to be said about that..obvious lack of brains there! Get in there and jump a rabbit!

Would you all feel comfortable in breeding a female like I have described?

Could.
Would.
and have just did it again.....

My top male dog has a Huge nose lol....but he has the brains to go with it. There have only been a handful of times when he opened early he didnt produce a rabbit. it does bother me but there not much i can do about it, i cant fault him for having to good of a nose. It has gotten him in trouble at a few UKC trials but i can deal with that.