The American Beagler Forum

Hey fellers I don t here nothing on two couple pack trials.What do you guys think about it.What your up and downs on it.I do ten a year and our biggest problem is the speed of the pack.

Just from reading in Hounds and Hunting and the rule book on them the two couple pack trials seems like a great idea and fun time. OUr club up here in Michigan has had a few fun trials and there just isn't much interest. I could be wrong but I don't think any of the other AKC clubs in Michigan holds any 2 couple pack trial, if they did I would for sure enter a pack. This is a competion that you could have any type of AKC beagle compete in, whether you run real fast dogs, medium or on the conservative side. Now if the fast dogs can keep a rabbit going and all the dogs contribute they would be hard press to be beat. reason being 50 percent of the score is on the clock, the rest of the score is based on scoring of individual hounds.

You would think AKC would really push this idea, maybe make it mandatory for a AKC club to hold a trial once a year, like they do a regular trial. This would get more people, you would think, involved in trials, the guy who runs a looser dog would beable to compete in this setting.

Just one example, I trial more at the ubgf clubs and gundog brace format, now about half hour from me there is a midwest akc club that is probably a little harder hitting dog. There is no reason that if my club was to have a 2 couple pack trial that there members couldn't run and have the same chance as I, and same as if they were to hold a trial. Now in a regular small pack option trial, and I have ran at a midwest trial, I probably don't have a chance, even though I did get 2 dogs back to winners pack, and a guy who runs midwest trials probably doesn't have much of a chance at our license trials. I hope this last paragraph made sense, I'm not saying that we would be getting cheated at each others trials, but lets face it we are breeding different bloodlines to what is winning in those federations.

So I guess long story longer is more of us would beable to enjoy the two couple pack trials if our clubs and AKC would advertise and push them harder.

Here at our club we give everbody a chance to enter.Any kind of a dog.It dose not matter what size or kind.If you got 4 dogs that can run a rabbit show me.And there been alot more that could not show me that could.

Looking at this format .. It seems a "SLOW PACK" would have a better shot of winning.

I myself would just as well watch paint dry.

Example.... Let's say in 15 min. my pack circles the rabbit 3 times and we where able to see the rabbit each time, but has 3 short break downs.

The "SLOW PACK" only runs 100 yards in 15 mins. and NEVER CIRCLES THE RABBIT, but never had a break down.

The "SLOW PACK " wins.

Well if the slow pack is that slow, would mean the hounds have no competitive spirit, which means if judged correctly the hounds as individual hounds would get low scores. 50 percent of the clock enters into the scoring equation not 100 percent. Now if conditions call for it, dogs may have to slow down, knuckle down and walk it, usually using common sense a houndsman would appreciate that work ethic and realize why the pace slowed down.

Of course a lot of it comes down to what type of running rabbit you've got, if you get a rabbit that gets up and runs a nice big circle that is a definite advantage, than the pack that gets a rabbit that is twisting and turning and sits on them. In the end its just for fun anyway, and is great to watch different packs of dogs. Also you can run your dog in more than one pack, a single dog can run in two packs.

Pack 1. Completed a circle in the time limit but had a 10 sec. check ( Rabbit seen).

Pack 2. Completed 3 circles in the time limit but had three 10 sec. checks ( 3 x Rabbit seen).

Does Pack 1 win ?

If so.

Advantage Slower dogs.

Sounds pretty obvious, the pack that circled the rabbit three times would be the winning pack. The main thing we need to remeber is the clock is only 50% of the score. I believe in your first example the pack who had no breakdowns ran 100 yards in 10 minuets, well that is not what any gundog judge would consider a hunting pack and would give zero points for each hound, that would be embarrassing. I've never seen such an occurence but I would think if they advanced it that slowly they would have a hard time being able to smell any of the line after the halfway point.

Now with that said I've only been to two of these trials and am no expert but I have read the rule book and the way I read it the pack that circled three times is the obvious winner.

Maybe someone with experience in these trials could explain it, and I would think like any other judged event, there will be problems that come along, we don't all see it the same way.

I have been told that a large percentage of the score is made up of how smooth the pack runs. Speed was NOT taken into account.

This being said..... A walking pack covering less ground but barking every breath would for sure outscore the faster pack with more break downs. Even though the faster pack would bring the rabbit around more in the time limit.

Which would you rather gun hunt over?

Hey T Lee.I understand what your talking about but most of the dogs that I see in this kind of a trial they don t rabbit hunt these dogs.They are call pleasure dogs.We all have to understand just because we have beagles that dose not mean we rabbit hunt.80 percent of the men that come to run here does not rabbit hunt.But I do, and respect them that dose not.Here at our club if the judge can walk faster than the pack running the rabbit they are pick up.To slow.Now with the fast dogs that you talking about I never seen a pack circle the rabbit three time in 15 min.Once they get on a rabbit they cannot lose it and go to another rabbit if so pick up.That the biggest problem that I see on fast dogs they cannot stay on the same rabbit.And as far as rabbit hunting goes if it was a place were there was lots of rabbits I would want the fast dogs but a place were there want that many rabbits the pack that stays on the rabbit.Our trials are done in a 17 ac rabbit pen were the rabbit know everthing, it take a good pack of dogs to stay on him.But your right fast dogs will not have much of a chance in this trial.I seen one fast pack run the rabbit.He got on a good rabbit and ran him.58 sec down time in 10 min.We judge are dogs on down time.So it dose not matter how fast the pack is.Just stay on him and run him.But all four dogs has to stay together.We do 10 trials a year.We have done 4 different trials in one day.Man hunters and dog everwere.Lee we do a Gun dog two cuple pack trial that you will like.You get score on how many rabbits you can show in 15 min.This is more were you find your hunting dogs.Everbody in this trial rabbits hunts.

Earl, I've got to get you out of those pens and into the real world of rabbit running.

Don't get me wrong , I've got a pen myself with plenty of rabbits but I only use it to start pups.

I would like to invite you to our hunting club to run. We have 4500 AC. to run on and plenty of rabbits. We even cook on the grill while running sometimes.
There's good fellowship and lots of dog talk. I think you would enjoy it.

LEESTNT4@AOL.COM

Earl when you have another of the 2 couple gun dog trials let me know, If I can make it I will come watch. I know you like the pen running so here's an idea for you. A trial in your pens using the Little pack format as a guide, no points, no papers, just dogs that will run a rabbit. I have seen the 2 couple pack pleasure trial before ( at your place in fact ) not my thing but just like the speed and drive I respect anybody that likes it. I like the little pack format because it is closest to actually hunting that I have seen. None are going to be perfect but thats just the one I like and if they where closer I would be running some. As for running a rabbit it has always been my feeling that if you don't have misses your not running the rabbit your walking him.

James Best
1-252-442-8318H
1-252-452-8849C

Thanks Lee for the invite.But your right I like the 12 to 15 ac pens.I used to get my dogs in shape on the out side but now with 7 pens and a hot tubb in the middle and just let them dogs run all they want and not worrie about a dog getting run over. .I like my dogs to run on the inside because the rabbits are harder to run.Then when rabbit season comes in I be ready to run that rabbit that is not harder to run than them pen rabbits.I know that some of you may think I m crazy but if you were run ever day for your life you will learnd something too.But thanks Lee I m sure I will have a great time.Were you stay at?

Pen rabbits are alot harder to run, they get chased everyday, they do more sitting, doubles and v's, they also seem to hole up much quicker.

I'm pretty fortunate I have two pens I can run in and the wild right across the street from me, not nearly as many checks out in the wild. Also hunt alot on state property. But running in the wild is a lot more fun to watch, if you like to see what your dogs are doing

20 miles East of Raleigh NC

This is just a small clip of a couple of the packs in our fun 2 couple pack trial.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=hF21kYKoNS0